- #1
Loren Booda
- 3,125
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What do you anticipate beyond death, and how are you preparing for it?
What Lies Beyond Death and How Should We Prepare?
- Thread starter Loren Booda
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In summary, Loren believes that we should live in the present and focus on enjoying our lives, since death is inevitable. Nautica agrees that life is too short to worry about death, and recommends drinking, eating, and sleeping plenty to prepare.
- #2
jammieg
Beyond death I anticipate a world in which my primitive imagination can't possissibly fathom and of course that's what every animal thinks
- #3
phoenixthoth
- 1,605
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encoded oblivion like the infinitesimal halo around 0, shrinking yet expanding, static yet dynamic, one but two and naught yet infinite
preparation?
how does one prepare for any 'new' thing? same applies here.
preparation?
how does one prepare for any 'new' thing? same applies here.
- #4
FZ+
- 1,604
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I expect nothing, except perhaps the freedom from expectations. 
- #5
phoenixthoth
- 1,605
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i'm rather fond of that answer. it's like a door to someplace or some state and one has no idea what is past it yet we must all some day open that door not knowing at all what is behind it.
- #6
nautica
Drinking too much, eating too much, stressing too much and not sleeping enough. That should be pretty good preperation, don't you think. I figure the next best thing would be jumping off a building.
Nautica
Nautica
- #7
metasystem
- 11
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Hi Loren,
Since we're in the philosophy subforum, I'll echo the thoughts of the 19th century neo-Kantian philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer, who is now remembered (rightly or wrongly) primarily as an anti-Hegelian pessimist.
His assertion was that death is merely "a return to the nothingness of the unborn".
Essentially this is an expression of what philosophers would call "monistic materialism" --i.e. "monism" as opposed to (Cartesian) "dualism", where mind and matter are all "one kind of thing"; thus when one's brain ceases to function, then one's consciousness (and/or "soul") ceases to exist. "Materialism" meaning that all phenomena in the universe are reducible to physical "laws of nature", without any explanatory requirement of things "beyond" such laws (i.e. the supernatural).
Although some people (particularly those holding religious beliefs) might view that as being the epitome of pessimism, it could also be viewed as a frank recognition of the preciousness of life. In the latter interpretation, one could argue that the value of life increases in the absence of any (non-falsifiable) 'afterlife'.
metasystem
Since we're in the philosophy subforum, I'll echo the thoughts of the 19th century neo-Kantian philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer, who is now remembered (rightly or wrongly) primarily as an anti-Hegelian pessimist.
His assertion was that death is merely "a return to the nothingness of the unborn".
Essentially this is an expression of what philosophers would call "monistic materialism" --i.e. "monism" as opposed to (Cartesian) "dualism", where mind and matter are all "one kind of thing"; thus when one's brain ceases to function, then one's consciousness (and/or "soul") ceases to exist. "Materialism" meaning that all phenomena in the universe are reducible to physical "laws of nature", without any explanatory requirement of things "beyond" such laws (i.e. the supernatural).
Although some people (particularly those holding religious beliefs) might view that as being the epitome of pessimism, it could also be viewed as a frank recognition of the preciousness of life. In the latter interpretation, one could argue that the value of life increases in the absence of any (non-falsifiable) 'afterlife'.
metasystem
- #8
Thallium
- 231
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I expect to be myself at least in soul and spirit and not reincarnate on Earth. However, one's expectations should not be too high. First, expect something of yourself here on Earth for down here your expactations can be fulfilled.
Your life may not be promised you - but come hell or high water - death will.
Your life may not be promised you - but come hell or high water - death will.
- #9
olde drunk
- 528
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it will be as waking from a dream is on this level. hopefully, i will have prepared my psyche to accept this 'awakening'.
peace,
peace,
- #10
Njorl
Science Advisor
- 288
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I am expecting oblivion.
The good news is you don't have to do much to prepare for it. It's the kind of job you can do with no training or experience.
Njorl
The good news is you don't have to do much to prepare for it. It's the kind of job you can do with no training or experience.
Njorl
- #11
phoenixthoth
- 1,605
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if it is oblivion, then you train for that when you sleep.
- #12
Njorl
Science Advisor
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In sleep there are dreams, and subconscious response to the world around you. Oblivion is less than that.
Njorl
- #13
phoenixthoth
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maybe you do, but i don't dream 100% of the time I'm asleep.
i was also hinting at the possibility that we dream when we are dead. maybe we are dead and this is a dream. HA!
i was also hinting at the possibility that we dream when we are dead. maybe we are dead and this is a dream. HA!
- #14
Mr. Robin Parsons
- 1,256
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Life, just in a manner that most do not, presently, know of, (bit like "NO" space) the preparation for that is done by living here, and learning what you need to know. (Truth!)
- #15
Loren Booda
- 3,125
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I anticipate timelessness beyond death, and prepare for it by having a good time in this life!
- #16
olde drunk
- 528
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THAT'S SAD ! !
peace
- #17
Omni
I anticipate that I will decompose and feed a tree that will grow healthy and strong. That tree no doubt will be cut down and sold off as timber and cosequentlly I will be part of some house or a picture frame maybe! Part of me will leach away into the water table only to be pumped up and sprayed on the crops so that they will grow and flourish. The crops will then be harvested and sold for human consumption at a supermarket,where someone will take part of me home and eat me. How do I pepare for this? Make picture frames and eat lots!
- #18
phoenixthoth
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if i were to be eaten by a cannibal then i'd end up flushed down the toilet like a fish formerly in a bowl.
- #19
elwestrand
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"Although some people (particularly those holding religious beliefs) might view that as being the epitome of pessimism, it could also be viewed as a frank recognition of the preciousness of life. In
Yes, I have considered this. Theoretically, athiestic materialismt should be more spiritual... But in real life I have observed that they are usually merely more withdrawn and very slow to acknowledge that life is precious, believing that "preciousness" is merely another falsification, and emotional response to death. Many are infact very selfish. The atiests (monists) I've known were so obtuse that they believed that their brand of belief is the "triumph of intellect over emotion," but did not realize that this itself IS an emotional response.
Am, I tend to not have a structured belief system. At the age of 7 I compelled my family to reexamine our Chistian alliegence and renouce it. I'm a transcendentalist. Spirituality is infinitly more beautiful than religion as most religons are conditonal. (Do this and you will go to Heaven, or do this and you will end your suffering). Thus, the majority of religious people are not sincere, if even only at a subconscious level. Very religious people are overwhelmingly dishonest, nihilistic. Spirituality can not be reduced to intellectual beliefs or philosophical predisposition. It is a state of being.
But based on my memory, dying is like the end of a dream- waking up. It is convienent for us that there is the metaphore. When we are having a non-lucid dream, our dream self seldom even comprehends that he exists apart from this dream. He cannot distinguish between dream and reality, although he never experiences reality so he takes dream as reality. This is undeniable. Furthermore, the dream self is not YOU. It is sort of like an extension of your personality, a fragmentation. But your self, your "you" is also not fully the real you. It also is just an extension. No amount of science can proove or disproove this. When you die, you merege into your full self-- it is a self that transcends life and death. Immediately, you will remember coutless existences. You will immediately know that you have never come into being, there is no beginning for you, you have always been. If you've been an athiest all your life, these beliefs will fade in an "instant" (time is very different).
Yes, I have considered this. Theoretically, athiestic materialismt should be more spiritual... But in real life I have observed that they are usually merely more withdrawn and very slow to acknowledge that life is precious, believing that "preciousness" is merely another falsification, and emotional response to death. Many are infact very selfish. The atiests (monists) I've known were so obtuse that they believed that their brand of belief is the "triumph of intellect over emotion," but did not realize that this itself IS an emotional response.
Am, I tend to not have a structured belief system. At the age of 7 I compelled my family to reexamine our Chistian alliegence and renouce it. I'm a transcendentalist. Spirituality is infinitly more beautiful than religion as most religons are conditonal. (Do this and you will go to Heaven, or do this and you will end your suffering). Thus, the majority of religious people are not sincere, if even only at a subconscious level. Very religious people are overwhelmingly dishonest, nihilistic. Spirituality can not be reduced to intellectual beliefs or philosophical predisposition. It is a state of being.
But based on my memory, dying is like the end of a dream- waking up. It is convienent for us that there is the metaphore. When we are having a non-lucid dream, our dream self seldom even comprehends that he exists apart from this dream. He cannot distinguish between dream and reality, although he never experiences reality so he takes dream as reality. This is undeniable. Furthermore, the dream self is not YOU. It is sort of like an extension of your personality, a fragmentation. But your self, your "you" is also not fully the real you. It also is just an extension. No amount of science can proove or disproove this. When you die, you merege into your full self-- it is a self that transcends life and death. Immediately, you will remember coutless existences. You will immediately know that you have never come into being, there is no beginning for you, you have always been. If you've been an athiest all your life, these beliefs will fade in an "instant" (time is very different).
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- #20
jammieg
I change my mind, I don't expect to die, instead I might go to college to help find a way to transplant the brain into a clone, and the grim reaper can take a number...all the technology is almost already there, probably the main reason people are against it is because they don't know if they will get it, once it becomes reality I'll bet religions and politics will be quickly modified, it's probably the most worthy endevour of the human race but everyone assumes someone else will make it happen.
Think about it, if an oragan can be transplanted and if neurons can be completely reconnected(thought to be impossible 20 years ago) and if an identical body can be grown(also thought to be impossible since the dawn of impossible thinking) then it's possible for the brain to be tranplanted into a body and nerves reconnected and people can live forever and almost ever in the silly kingdom of heaven if they want, or move on to the extra silly kingdom of heaven if they want. That would be a great company to start up, give us a 2k investment and in 10 years we might give you another lifetime...maybe even add an extra head if you want...of course it's foolishness just like microchips and flying machines.
Think about it, if an oragan can be transplanted and if neurons can be completely reconnected(thought to be impossible 20 years ago) and if an identical body can be grown(also thought to be impossible since the dawn of impossible thinking) then it's possible for the brain to be tranplanted into a body and nerves reconnected and people can live forever and almost ever in the silly kingdom of heaven if they want, or move on to the extra silly kingdom of heaven if they want. That would be a great company to start up, give us a 2k investment and in 10 years we might give you another lifetime...maybe even add an extra head if you want...of course it's foolishness just like microchips and flying machines.
- #21
elwestrand
- 86
- 0
What are you going to do when the sun expands to engulf the earth? What are you going to do when the whole universe as we know it disseminates? Granted, that is in several billion trillion year but you will still die-- much sooner from a fatal accident.
Everyone is so afraid of cloning, why? It is very simple, clones happen in nature all the time. Identical twins are clones.
I have yet to speak to anyone in real life who wanted to be immortal. Infact, I think the entire fear of death could be a myth. Everyone I meet, regardless of personal beliefs, does not want to live forever. What is the value of human life if it is immortal? A rock is immortal, no body loves rocks very much. Plus, if we all become immortal, we must stop having children and I imagine a world without children infinitely more bleak that a world with death.
Of course, spiritually we are immortal but as long as people identify themselves with this temporary body and personality, and have no knowledge of their spiritual identity, death is a very real thing. This is undeniable.
Everyone is so afraid of cloning, why? It is very simple, clones happen in nature all the time. Identical twins are clones.
I have yet to speak to anyone in real life who wanted to be immortal. Infact, I think the entire fear of death could be a myth. Everyone I meet, regardless of personal beliefs, does not want to live forever. What is the value of human life if it is immortal? A rock is immortal, no body loves rocks very much. Plus, if we all become immortal, we must stop having children and I imagine a world without children infinitely more bleak that a world with death.
Of course, spiritually we are immortal but as long as people identify themselves with this temporary body and personality, and have no knowledge of their spiritual identity, death is a very real thing. This is undeniable.
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- #22
elibol
- 107
- 0
i think that simple fact can show that life's meaning cannot ever make 'sense' to us...
whatever state the released energy takes is beyond human comprehension and recognition from a human perspective...
thus whatever 'functions' the released energy takes basis on the necessity to manifest humanly is impossible for us to understand.
what the hell am i talking about ? heh... take this as a metaphor for whatever you believe in =]
- #23
MacTech
I hope that in death that I do not have to "life" another life time in another place another time. I hope that it is just nothing and I expected it to be so with no real evidence for being anything else. Personally I can't even see myself enjoying another existence with some of the ppl on this planet already.
- #24
elibol
- 107
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i sort agree it is sort of sad that i will have to constantly use conciousness, cause i don't even know if there is a state of conciousness after death. but how else can i explain? refer to conciousness as an interaction point between manifested energies stimulation? i don't know how else to explain, simply because I am human, so here it goes...
you are losing all conciousness and subconscious and unconscious reality, you are done with. your oneness as in ever having any conscious force in the world is over, i am living proof of this.
what i mean by that is that i have never witnessed the dead having any paranormal impact on my conscious reality. assuming sub-conscious and unconscious minds are 'able' with the same energy that the conscious mind is 'able' with then when one goes they all go... that's how i see it.
your energy releases and may or may not (simply cause i don't know) be summoned (the 'spark' i guess) to manifest some other form, another form of conciousness be taken (but not taken in like some awakening in my opinion). maybe in some linear escalation to a higher state of conciousness, and in the opinion of some amount of people are the beliefs that their may be some 'ultra conciousness' 'overseeing' all of this some how. can't say its 'impossible' :P
everything you dream is subjective material from the conscious stimulation of your senses... this statement doesn't rule out the possibility of any psyche, it just says deaths other side's 'existence effect' (whatever you want to call it), isn't like waking up, in my opinion it is more like being born is in this conciousness.
you are dying, so the only natural thing would be to be reborn, one, the other-> thus eliminating any psyche preperation. what I am trying to say here is that i think its totally unrelated to your psyche, it is your psyche that is being released as well...
if we only really knew why we sleep, the answer to knowing why we dream in the first place is that much closer... though my personal beliefs on the matter are that it is impossible to truly know.
these are my conclusions so far as i know maybe some of my foundational subjective premises' could be false. more so though a use of logic to try and give my view on the perspective of the matter...
closest i can get to not sounding like I am talking out my ass or basing anything on sientific fact, or religious thoughts. =]
tell me what you think.
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- #25
elibol
- 107
- 0
that is suicidal...
there are reasons why you may not enjoy other people, and there are reasons why those people seem unenjoyable to you. if you look at anyone, they will have problems up the ying-yang man. causing them to behave like untamed primitive morons...
but that doesn't stop you from enjoying life with people you do enjoy being around. you really have no choice but to accept the natural being of existence. you have no idea what lys before you, you existence to this world was possible, why shouldn't it be possible again? or why can't something completely abstract from your human brain? incomprehensible?
you will believe what you will believe, but don't not enjoy life from it... chill out man =]
- #26
MacTech
huh? I never said i didn't enjoy this life.
- #27
Omni
Who says we're not all dead already and this chat is about "expecting life".
- #28
phoenixthoth
- 1,605
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i read that with a very surreal aspect given a dream i just had...
- #29
elibol
- 107
- 0
haha, when that sort of thing happens to me it excites me, makes me feel like I am living.
omni, think of it this way:
this is life. whatever is after this is regarded as whatever it is regarded as when your "there".
does that work ?
omni, think of it this way:
this is life. whatever is after this is regarded as whatever it is regarded as when your "there".
does that work ?
1. What happens after we die?
As a scientist, I cannot provide a concrete answer to this question as it is currently beyond the scope of scientific inquiry. However, many religions and belief systems offer their own perspectives on life after death.
2. Is there any evidence for an afterlife?
There is currently no scientific evidence to support the existence of an afterlife. However, some people may find comfort in personal experiences or anecdotal evidence.
3. Should we be concerned about preparing for death?
While death is an inevitable part of life, it is not something we can fully prepare for. Instead, we can focus on living a meaningful and fulfilling life in the present.
4. How can we cope with the fear of death?
The fear of death is a natural human emotion, but it can be managed through various coping mechanisms such as therapy, meditation, and connecting with others.
5. Does our belief in an afterlife affect how we should live our lives?
For some, their belief in an afterlife may influence their moral code and actions in this life. However, it is ultimately up to each individual to determine how they want to live their life and what brings them a sense of purpose and fulfillment.
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