Failing trigonometry = the death of a amatuer physicist

[kaos86]

I feel so shamed of myself. I don't know who to blame. The teacher gives the exact same lessons on the book, but never follow how you should answer your trig. problems. I studied all through the week and even late at night. I got a C in the class, but I really want to be a physicist because I love math. Math is like a fun puzzle to solve. I feel like my dreams are dying and theoretical physics may be a fool's dream. Can anybody cheer me up? Has any physicist failed a math class and later on in life did very good on other math subjects.

My strong points are formulas and equations. And yet! I'm doing bad in trigonometry.
Some guidance would help me in my academic issues.

Thank you for those who took time reading my dilemma.

 

[symbolipoint]

Tough to say. Can you understand by yourself WHY you are doing poorly in Trigonometry? Are you merely weak in some aspect of Trig. or are you deficient in some prerequisite for Trig? Also, do not fool yourself with grades from your prerequisite courses leading to the Trigonometry course. A grade no matter what it be above D does not mean that you fully understood everything needed for the course which follow or for the courses in which you earned the grade. To be very brief, RESTUDY!

 

[General_Sax]

Don’t try to be a great man, just be a man. . . --Zephren Cochrane Star Trek: First Contact

 

[Pengwuino]

Can anybody cheer me up? Has any physicist failed a math class and later on in life did very good on other math subjects.

My strong points are formulas and equations. And yet! I'm doing bad in trigonometry.
Some guidance would help me in my academic issues.

let's see.. .1... 2... 3... yup, failed 3 math classes in college alone and I'm one of hte better mathematically inclined grad students in my department.

There are some BAD teachers out there. Plus there are some subjects that you just don't get the first time around or even the second but hopefully at some point, something will click or you'll find a good professor or your countless hours of studying will simply brute force the information into your brain :)

 

[Topher925]

Don't worry to much about it. I'm not a physics major but I failed two math classes and a lot of classmates say I'm great at math. If you have to take trig again, its not a big deal.

 

[kaos86]

It's that I don't understand why this damn professor wanted the classroom to do the homework on the book, yet he gives a different answer to any subject and the book does not clarify how we should answer the trig problem. I find it stupid and he is a bad teacher if he leaves out important examples that we must know.

If that's not the case, maybe I should quit and accept that I have no talent at anything. I'm sorry to vent off or go angry, but I think the education system in Florida sucks so much it can be compared to a prostitute giving oral. I' am happy that everyone reply my topic and I thank all of you who did.

 

[DrummingAtom]

What I've found is using multiple references to a subject can really clear things up. Check out other Trig books and see if that helps. It's a lot more work but might save you. Good luck.

 

[isabelle]

I'm currently working on a theoretical physics PhD, and I didn't stand out in my high school math classes until taking calculus. I never took the class called 'trigonometry', but in my junior year of high school I decided I wanted to do physics and I found out that calculus was imporant, so I went sraight from a B- in algebra 2 to an A in calculus. The year after that I encouraged a high school friend do the exact same thing (they went on to be a math major as an undergrad and went to grad school in eonomics).

Looking back, the problem was that I never saw anything close to the 'big picture' in math until calculus. I say hang in there until then...

 

[Jack21222]

I just started taking college classes again this semester, after an 8 year break. The last time I used trig was in 2001. I'm taking the first semester of calc-based physics this semester, and it uses a lot of trig. That was my biggest weakness coming into the class.

After a few weeks, a lot of the trig is just second nature. It took a little bit of time to get up to speed, but it wasn't that hard to re-learn "on the fly," so to speak.

 

[symbolipoint]

It's that I don't understand why this damn professor wanted the classroom to do the homework on the book, yet he gives a different answer to any subject and the book does not clarify how we should answer the trig problem. I find it stupid and he is a bad teacher if he leaves out important examples that we must know.

If that's not the case, maybe I should quit and accept that I have no talent at anything. I'm sorry to vent off or go angry, but I think the education system in Florida sucks so much it can be compared to a prostitute giving oral. I' am happy that everyone reply my topic and I thank all of you who did.

Kaos86, the current semester may be a major development semester for you. Trigonometry is somewhat different from "Algebra 2". Before this, you did not study cyclic relationships and the two or more ways to represent cyclic information. You may currently be struggling with how to study Trigonometry. As frustrated as you are right now, you may be learning how to study Trigonometry, and you might not know this for another 2, 3, 5, or 6 more months.

How is your Algebra? If it is basically good, then after you are done struggling with Trigonometry at the end of the semester, spend the whole summer studying it again, on your own, not attending the course. Then, enroll in it for the Autumn term to study officially for the second time. You should be able then to earn at least a grade of B.

...if he leaves out important examples we must know.

You do not need to know many examples. Maybe the only "examples" you must know are the basic graphs of the functions AND graphs of their inverses. There are really no other examples which you must know. You must know the Unit Circle, for certain, and the common values of functions (sine and cosine) for certain common reference angles. You should know how to derive the angle addition and difference formulas for sine and for cosine. You must know the definitions of the trigonometric functions.

 

[Wellesley]

I'm currently working on a theoretical physics PhD, and I didn't stand out in my high school math classes until taking calculus. I never took the class called 'trigonometry', but in my junior year of high school I decided I wanted to do physics and I found out that calculus was imporant, so I went sraight from a B- in algebra 2 to an A in calculus. The year after that I encouraged a high school friend do the exact same thing (they went on to be a math major as an undergrad and went to grad school in eonomics).

Looking back, the problem was that I never saw anything close to the 'big picture' in math until calculus. I say hang in there until then...

I agree with you isabelle. Hang in there kaos86. Calculus, especially coupled with Physics will be worth your struggles. Don't give up.
"Brick walls are there for a reason. They let us prove how badly we want things."
-Randy Pausch

 

[thrill3rnit3]

If you can't derive your identities and formulas and only rely on brute memorization you won't get too far.

Even if you don't remember them the day of your test, if you know how to derive them you should do fine.

 

[mal4mac]

I remember sinking to C level in trig. when I was about 13. I fixed it by reading through a good 'programmed text' on trig borrowed from the local library. Any trig. text that 'speaks to you' should do the job. I was soon top of the class again... until the next glitch a few years later :-)

Don't feel ashamed, this kind of thing happens to most people.

 

[Dr.D]

"It's that I don't understand why this damn professor wanted the classroom to do the homework on the book..."

You surely will not get very far with that sort of attitude. The professor does not need to learn the material; you do. In the end, you will be the one getting the information you need, or not, as the case may be. Even if he does exactly nothing to help you (which would be fairly uncommon, but not impossible), it is still up to you to learn the material.

Your options at this point are to buckle down and learn the material, or to drop the class and try it again later. Blaming the teacher is simply childish and counter productive.

 

[nbo10]

I really want to be a physicist because I love math.

Shouldn't this sentence read. "I really want to be a mathematician because I love math."

 

[quasar_4]

Growing up, math was my worst subject. I usually did average work or better, but it was awful compared to my other subjects.

It was even worse in trig. I got a C in high school trig - the worst grade I ever got in my life! - and took Calculus the next year in part to spite the trig teacher who I so loathed, and who told me that I was not capable of doing math.

I had to work very, very hard in calculus, but I got a 4 on the AP test. I majored in math and physics in college (sometimes things I hadn't learned popped up, but I filled in the holes). And strangely, I found that I am very good at abstract ideas and theorems, so I dominated my abstract algebra, linear algebra and differential geometry classes. I'm a decent math student now - I can hold my own. So, yes, there is hope. Don't give up. The thing is that math sometimes just takes a long time. You have to see it many times sometimes. The key is not to give up! And never have too much pride to ask for help.

 

[kaos86]

Shouldn't this sentence read. "I really want to be a mathematician because I love math."

I want to be a theoretical physicist {Theoretical physics employs mathematical models and abstractions of physics in an attempt to explain experimental data taken of the natural world. It has been compared to "being a composer on a world without sound ... throwing a bottle into the future, and if we do it right, future generations can use that information." Its central core is mathematical physics 1, though other conceptual techniques are also used.}

Source: Wikipedia.org.

 

[nbo10]

I want to be a theoretical physicist {Theoretical physics employs mathematical models and abstractions of physics in an attempt to explain experimental data taken of the natural world. It has been compared to "being a composer on a world without sound ... throwing a bottle into the future, and if we do it right, future generations can use that information." Its central core is mathematical physics 1, though other conceptual techniques are also used.}

Source: Wikipedia.org.

If you're going to become a physicist because you love math, you are going to be disappointed. I would suggest finding a better source than wikipedia to base your judgment on becoming a theoretical physicist.

 

[kaos86]

"It's that I don't understand why this damn professor wanted the classroom to do the homework on the book..."

You surely will not get very far with that sort of attitude. The professor does not need to learn the material; you do. In the end, you will be the one getting the information you need, or not, as the case may be. Even if he does exactly nothing to help you (which would be fairly uncommon, but not impossible), it is still up to you to learn the material.

Your options at this point are to buckle down and learn the material, or to drop the class and try it again later. Blaming the teacher is simply childish and counter productive.

You're right. I should not blame the professor. I should blame myself and those damn video games. I've been studying hard now. I've studied so hard that I usually go to sleep at 4:00 am in the morning. This class just built more character in my personality and help me be more serious in my career on Theoretical Physics.

 

[ank_gl]

Don't get desperate to learn it, relax & start studying it from scratch, ie, assume that you haven't seen θ, Ψ, α, γ etc before.

Sometimes one overlooks a simple statement & understands it in a wrong or not so correct form & repeats the same mistake time & time again without noticing it. it happens with soo many people. Don't get restless about it, just rethink what you are doing wrong.

 

[Saladsamurai]

If you're going to become a physicist because you love math, you are going to be disappointed. I would suggest finding a better source than wikipedia to base your judgment on becoming a theoretical physicist.

Really? There's no math involved in Theoretical Physics. Hmmm. This is very interesting.
Perhaps you should elaborate.

 

[kuahji]

"Failing trigonometry = the death of a amatuer physicist"

No, absolutely not. I didn't do so hot either at trigonometry the first time around. Granted I passed, but it wasn't great. There is a lot of trig. in physics, so you'll have to pick it up. But if you're willing to work at it, you can still succeed in physics. If you keep failing math classes, then it might be best to look at your work ethics or realize maybe this isn't the field for you.

 

[symbolipoint]

"Failing trigonometry = the death of a amatuer physicist"

No, absolutely not. I didn't do so hot either at trigonometry the first time around. Granted I passed, but it wasn't great. There is a lot of trig. in physics, so you'll have to pick it up. But if you're willing to work at it, you can still succeed in physics. If you keep failing math classes, then it might be best to look at your work ethics or realize maybe this isn't the field for you.

Some people may need a double or even a triple exposue to some Math courses to be good with them (as tools). Then again, you should become skilled in at least the basics of Trigonometry through its use in the study of Physics. Same thing goes for what Math course come after Trigonometry - you must be willing to study things MORE.

 

[presario]

High school is a joke anyway, don't worry. I suggest get a new book on trigonometry and learn it properly. Most of the time when I see people not doing very well in high school mathematics its because they had bad books/ bad teachers which taught them in bad ways. Just teach your self the stuffs, all what you need for trigonometry are pencils and rulers, you can do it.

 

[kuahji]

High school is a joke anyway, don't worry. I suggest get a new book on trigonometry and learn it properly. Most of the time when I see people not doing very well in high school mathematics its because they had bad books/ bad teachers which taught them in bad ways. Just teach your self the stuffs, all what you need for trigonometry are pencils and rulers, you can do it.

Very true. I'd suggest taking classes at a community college rather than taking them at high school.

 

[Count Iblis]

I feel so shamed of myself. I don't know who to blame. The teacher gives the exact same lessons on the book, but never follow how you should answer your trig. problems. I studied all through the week and even late at night. I got a C in the class, but I really want to be a physicist because I love math. Math is like a fun puzzle to solve. I feel like my dreams are dying and theoretical physics may be a fool's dream. Can anybody cheer me up? Has any physicist failed a math class and later on in life did very good on other math subjects.

My strong points are formulas and equations. And yet! I'm doing bad in trigonometry.
Some guidance would help me in my academic issues.

Thank you for those who took time reading my dilemma.

Why not study complex numbers? You can derive many trig identities using the algebra of complex numbers in a straightforward way using only the identity:

exp(ix) = cos(x) + i sin(x) (1)

This identity can be interpreted as the definition of cos and sin (sometimes it is introduced as defining exp(ix), but you can just as well define exp(z) first and then define the trigonometric function in terms of the exponential function).

This then has the advantage that you only use the properties of the exponential function in derivations. You don't need any geometry, triangles and what have you more.

E.g. if you square (1), you get:

exp(2 i x) = cos^2(x) - sin^2(x) + 2 i cos(x) sin(x)

Biut exp(2 i x) can also be obtained by treplacing x by 2 x in (1):

exp(2 i x) = cos(2 x) + i sin(2 x)

Equating the real and imaginary parts then yields:

cos(2 x) = cos^2(x) - sin^2(x)

sin(2 x) = 2 sin(x) cos(x)


Another well known identity can be derived as follows:

exp(i x) exp(-i x) = 1 ------>

[cos(x) + i sin(x)][cos(x) - i sin(x)] = 1 ----->

cos^2(x) + sin^2(x) = 1

 

[Dr.D]

"You don't need any geometry, triangles and what have you more."

You may not need geometry for manipulating triangle relations, but there is a great need for geometry in understanding physics. I'd say that was a considerable overstatement.

"High school is a joke anyway..."

This is true only for those who chose to make it a joke. It need not be if you really want to learn something. I still regularly make use of information that I learned in high school over 50 years ago.

The worldly wisdom of the young is an amazing thing!

 

[elect_eng]

My strong points are formulas and equations. And yet! I'm doing bad in trigonometry.
Some guidance would help me in my academic issues.

Thank you for those who took time reading my dilemma.

Theoretical physics requires very good math aptitude. If you have the aptitude, you can dedicate yourself to learn everything you need along the way. One bad grade doesn't mean much, as long as ability is not the reason for the failure.

Personal story: I was in the lowest math classes until 11th grade because I failed many math classes. They were so boring I never paid attention. Then, I took SATs and got 700 on the math portion. The teachers and administrators were all very embarassed by this. This resulted in me being put in 3 math classes as a senior - advanced algebra & trig, algebra 1 and algebra 2. Then I took calculus in the summer before college started. Now I have a PhD in electrical engineeing and know all types of mathematics including tensor calculus.

This was many years ago. Recently I've heard that the US math teaching system is very poor now. Don't let others determine your fate. Go for it!

 

[ank_gl]

Why not study complex numbers? You can derive many trig identities using the algebra of complex numbers in a straightforward way using only the identity:

exp(ix) = cos(x) + i sin(x) (1)

it won't do anything but confuse him further

High school is a joke anyway, don't worry.

so true, can't be any truer

This is true only for those who chose to make it a joke.

no its not, your case just didn't belong to this category,

Most of the time when I see people not doing very well in high school mathematics its because they had bad books/ bad teachers which taught them in bad ways.

which is precisely the reason.

 

[evilpostingmong]

Alright here goes. In high school, I was in the low-level math courses.
So i went through math at half pace. Scored in the low 400's on my
math SAT. D average even in those courses.
Now for the college rundown.
Major-pre Med
Pre-Calc A-
Calculus I B
Physics I and II A, A-

Current Major-CompSci
CompSciI=A-
Discrete Math=B-
CompSci II=Running an A
Calculus II=Running an A
Self studying linear algebra
Oh and if you think I have easy professors, lol
I can do some proofs, tough problems in my textbooks,
and I can program very well,
I guess the colleges around here have higher standards
for teaching. I may sound arrogrant, lol but take this into
perspective.

 

[ObHassell]

Well, honestly you shouldn't beat yourself up bad about it, as long as you get at least a C you're doing well enough. To me it's the lowest acceptable grade in a math class...and besides...at least it's not a D!

At my high school I had a HORRIBLE teacher for Intermediate Algebra. He was from Colombia and after living here for like 20 years he still hadn't lost a pinch of his accent. Well I failed the first semester and barely got a D in the second, so I retook it next year and replaced that F with a C (it was a B for the longest time, but i think i messed up on one exam). There were other kids in that class that were getting high A's and High B's and I was getting a C, but since my teacher knew that I could do the math and was pretty good at it, he would use my papers (homework and classwork) as the answer key!

So just because you aren't doing well (gradewise) you might just not be cut out for math! But physics is different from Math, it's got math, and some of it is very close to just being another math class, but Physics is NOT math (again, very math intensive, but a totally different thing at the same time). I took Physics for a semester to try it out and loved it! In all of the class I was in the lowest level math in all of my physics class, I was in the first semester of Precalc and everyone else was in AP Calc BC (that's Calculus 2). I did exceptionally well! Again, my grade was like a B, but I did really well with the topics and the math and everything (I just didn't really do any homework...neither did anyone else). Out of all 12 of us, only two of us could actually understand what was happening in that class and that was me and this kid named Jonjon, and jonjon went to the best high school in the country up until 10th grade, BASIS Charter School (if you don't start at that school in 4th or 5th grade, you WILL fail...horribly...Algebra 1 in 7th, Algebra 2 in 8th, and Precalc in 9th)

So don't feel bad, you can be decent or even horrible at math and still do great! As long as you like doing Physics, you should do perfectly fine...This is from my experience though...so yeah...Good Luck!

 

[Cantab Morgan]

High school is a joke anyway, don't worry.

What could that possibly mean? I'm serious, what does that even mean? In what universe is that constructive advice?

 

[thrill3rnit3]

Don't even get me started with high school math.

 

[Cantab Morgan]

Don't even get me started with high school math.

Respectfully, that's not an answer.

 

[thrill3rnit3]

Respectfully, that's not an answer.

I wasn't trying to answer the original poster. I was following up the previous posts which were about how bad high school is.

 

[ObHassell]

i totally agree with thrill. High school math is ridiculously strange...most of the teachers aren't doing it because they love math or teaching, it's because they didn't do well enough in college to get a good job or into a grad program so they thought "hey, what the heck...How bout teaching?" and that's the way it goes. My senior year Precal/Trig teacher wasn't very good at teaching, but at least he did love math...he had a doctorate in math. But most other teachers were just plain difficult...all my life before high school i heard that algebra 2 was easier than algebra 1 because it was the same thing just a little bit more advanced (which was supposed to be easy because you already knew the material, so you were just doing more advanced versions of it)...then when i get to algebra 2 it's like "OMG! This has got to be the hardest thing I've ever done in my life!"...my teacher was horrible. and that's all I have to say

 

[thrill3rnit3]

i totally agree with thrill. High school math is ridiculously strange...most of the teachers aren't doing it because they love math or teaching, it's because they didn't do well enough in college to get a good job or into a grad program so they thought "hey, what the heck...How bout teaching?" and that's the way it goes. My senior year Precal/Trig teacher wasn't very good at teaching, but at least he did love math...he had a doctorate in math. But most other teachers were just plain difficult...all my life before high school i heard that algebra 2 was easier than algebra 1 because it was the same thing just a little bit more advanced (which was supposed to be easy because you already knew the material, so you were just doing more advanced versions of it)...then when i get to algebra 2 it's like "OMG! This has got to be the hardest thing I've ever done in my life!"...my teacher was horrible. and that's all I have to say

My Algebra 2/Trig teacher 2 years ago is so bad, like seriously. She teaches the classic plug and chug method. Doesn't teach the most important stuff because it's "too hard for the rest". Like I remember when I was taking her class, and we were doing trigonometry, she didn't even touch on the identities...and half her class was planning to take ap calculus the next year.

 

[Wellesley]

Recently I've heard that the US math teaching system is very poor now.

An excellent example of currently used teaching methods for math classes:

This seemed appropriate material for this Forum, I wasn't sure what section.

http://www.bryanappleyard.com/blog/2008/04/teaching-maths.php

1. Teaching Maths In 1970
A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100.
His cost of production is 4/5 of the price.
What is his profit?

2. Teaching Maths In 1980
A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100.
His cost of production is 4/5 of the price, or £80.
What is his profit?

3. Teaching Maths In 1990
A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100.
His cost of production is £80.
Did he make a profit?

4. Teaching Maths In 2000
A logger sells a truckload of timber for £100.
His cost of production is £80 and his profit is £20.
Your assignment: Underline the number 20.

5. Teaching Maths In 2008
A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of animals or the preservation of our woodlands.
He does this so he can make a profit of £20.
What do you think of this way of making a living?
Topic for class participation after answering the question: How did the birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes? (There are no wrong answers. )

 

[Wellesley]

So just because you aren't doing well (gradewise) you might just not be cut out for math! But physics is different from Math, it's got math, and some of it is very close to just being another math class, but Physics is NOT math (again, very math intensive, but a totally different thing at the same time). I took Physics for a semester to try it out and loved it! In all of the class I was in the lowest level math in all of my physics class, I was in the first semester of Precalc and everyone else was in AP Calc BC (that's Calculus 2). I did exceptionally well! Again, my grade was like a B, but I did really well with the topics and the math and everything (I just didn't really do any homework...neither did anyone else).

Not to be critical, but...I think physics has a lot of math in it, especially if you make it a career. I know that it goes well beyond Calculus II.

There were other kids in that class that were getting high A's and High B's and I was getting a C, but since my teacher knew that I could do the math and was pretty good at it, he would use my papers (homework and classwork) as the answer key!

 

[Count Iblis]

it won't do anything but confuse him further

This mentality is the cause of the problem in the first place. I mean, if we were to only teach spelling and grammar and postpone letting students read books until university, because "you should first learn to master the basics perfectly before you move on", then children would grow up to become illiterate. It is precisely because we teach math in this way that grown up people don't know much about math.

 

[millitiz]

This mentality is the cause of the problem in the first place. I mean, if we were to only teach spelling and grammar and postpone letting students read books until university, because "you should first learn to master the basics perfectly before you move on", then children would grow up to become illiterate. It is precisely because we teach math in this way that grown up people don't know much about math.

Hmm, very interesting. While it sounds reasonable, I kinda wonder, then where is the cut off point?
Just take the complex relation here. So if the HS teacher teach it in a HS trig course, then doesn't s/he also need to introduce what complex number is? The complex plain? Why is this true? and what exactly is i, How to derive it, etc...I mean you can go on and on and on. And the problem is, where should the teacher stops? It is easy to introduce this concept, but it would take a lot much more time to integrate this concept into students' head.
And btw, if the students couldn't grasp the ideas of trigonometry, would using some even more advance way of explaining it be appropriated, or is it going to be more confusing?

 

[Count Iblis]

The teacher should teach about complex numbers, but that should be done when the students are about 12 years old. Not when they are 14 or 15 and starting to learn trigonometry.

Complex numbers, complex plane, etc. can be taught to 12 years olds without much problems. You can use elementary geometry, you don't need to be proficient at being able to use trigonometric formulas like cos(2 alpha) = 2 cos^2(alpha) - 1.

Then when the students learn about exponential function they can learn about Euler's identity as well. Now trigonometry is different from just simple geometry in that you now have to be able to manipulate expressions involving trigonometric functions in a more abstract way. Being able to use the algebra of complex numbers then helps.

 

[ank_gl]

The teacher should teach about complex numbers, but that should be done when the students are about 12 years old. Not when they are 14 or 15 and starting to learn trigonometry.

Complex numbers, complex plane, etc. can be taught to 12 years olds without much problems. You can use elementary geometry, you don't need to be proficient at being able to use trigonometric formulas like cos(2 alpha) = 2 cos^2(alpha) - 1.

one needs to consider that students at 12-14 have limited minds, they cannot compare to what you have. Students need to be fed slowly, so that they absorb things which are taught. Can you imagine how confused a child would be if he can prove trig relations by complex numbers, but is unable to recall any complex number at all?
quite frankly, have you ever taught a student? I teach my brother maths & physics an hour daily, he is in high school. Being an engineer, i do sometimes go in soooo much detail & depth, that the poor guy is left

Age is a serious factor, else I would have had 5 PhDs by now

 

[Wellesley]

one needs to consider that students at 12-14 have limited minds, they cannot compare to what you have. Students need to be fed slowly, so that they absorb things which are taught. Can you imagine how confused a child would be if he can prove trig relations by complex numbers, but is unable to recall any complex number at all?
quite frankly, have you ever taught a student? I teach my brother maths & physics an hour daily, he is in high school. Being an engineer, i do sometimes go in soooo much detail & depth, that the poor guy is left

Age is a serious factor, else I would have had 5 PhDs by now

If kids were exposed early enough, I don't think there would be any problems. The problem is, in schools, kids are not learning as much as they should be. For example, kids are coming into high school, not knowing how to graph a (X,Y) point, or can barely deal with fractions. It's the schools that are the problem, not the restraints of the kid's age.

 

[Count Iblis]

I agree with Wellesley. Kids of age 8 play computer games that require more logical reasoning than solving the average university homework math problem requires. So, kids at primary school are capable of learning much more mathematics than they are taught now.

Also, if you were to teach math at a younger age, the brains of children will develop differently so that they can more easily understand math. It is similar to how you wouldn't have been able to read and write properly if you had learned it after the age of 12. Reading a sentence would have remained as difficult for you as for a five year old who has just learned it.

 

[kaos86]

if you were to teach math at a younger age, the brains of children will develop differently so that they can more easily understand math.

It's true, I wish I was exposed to math soon in my younger days. Sadly, the education system in America sucks ***. Japan has robots already and yet America just have bad teachers, books, and no good plan for children to advance well in the schools. I agree with everyone on somethings about school and issues of the education system.

 

[thrill3rnit3]

The United States hasn't been about education.

It has been about sports, leisure, and partying. There's no way you can change that now.

 

[DarrenM]

Also, if you were to teach math at a younger age, the brains of children will develop differently so that they can more easily understand math.

I'm very wary of statements like this, as I cannot recall having read or seen a study that supported such claims...especially ones that were not first passed through the media hype-machine.

I'm also a bit amused by the invective I'm seeing hurled at the education system. I will very shortly be concluding my 2nd year as a high school teacher, and I can't help but wonder how many folks making these comments have taught before... or how many people saying these things even have children.

My own experience has led me to believe that the problem is caused by a multitude of various factors. Bad teachers may be one of those factors, but I seriously doubt they are the primary one. It is a systemic problem, and it is not something that an inane 4-year plan is going to fix. A child could have the best teacher in the world but if they go home to an environment that not only places little value on education but outright reviles it... well, I hope my magic wand arrives soon, because that's the only way that child will be able to break the cycle they're in.

I've seen a depressing lack of personal resposibility amongst students and parents. A teacher's job is to teach, true, but "to learn" is not a passive verb. We can not, no matter how much we may wish to, open up a child's head and impart knowledge or understanding when that child does not care to learn. We can try to plant those seeds, but if they're not in fertile ground we're out of luck.

When I was quite young, even before I started attending school, my mother spent a great deal of time with me reviewing flashcards. Basic arithmetic, multiplication tables, states and their capitols, as well as an assortment of other subjects and content. My mother did not have a college education, but she burned with a desire to see her sons obtain a degree, to go on and do "better" than she had. I would rather have been caught smoking than have brought home a report card with a C on it. We weren't struck, or abused, but the disappointment that it would have caused... I still shiver at the thought. We were taught to show respect to our teachers even--no, especially, if we did not like them. It was made clear that we were there to learn regardless of whether or not we "liked" the teacher.

If a student is not doing well the first questions I ask are these: has he been doing his homework? Has she been taking notes/paying attention in class? Has he been coming to the extra-help sessions that are available? Do you, the parent, see the child doing any schoolwork at home?

Which leads us back to the original question; others have stated that failing a single math class is not the apocalypse. However, I would reiterate that the single most important person in your education is you. You may have a bad teacher, yes, but ultimately you determine how much you get out of a class. Barring certain extenuating circumstances, a poor grade is almost always a reflection of a lack of ability, lack of effort, or both.

 

[millitiz]

It seems like the direction of thread is spinning off from the main course :D

I agree with Wellesley. Kids of age 8 play computer games that require more logical reasoning than solving the average university homework math problem requires. So, kids at primary school are capable of learning much more mathematics than they are taught now.

Also, if you were to teach math at a younger age, the brains of children will develop differently so that they can more easily understand math. It is similar to how you wouldn't have been able to read and write properly if you had learned it after the age of 12. Reading a sentence would have remained as difficult for you as for a five year old who has just learned it.

I think I am pushing it a bit too serious, I am wondering the credibility of your first statement of your first statement " Kids of age 8 play computer games that require more logical reasoning than solving the average university homework math problem requires."
Because I have the feeling that the statement is more like "there exist some kids of age 8 that play computer games that require more logical reasoning..."
If so, then the statement really means nothing. Yea, that it is nice, but so what? Statistically speaking, it doesn't not draw any useful conclusion other than confirming the Gaussian bell shape curve.
If the statement is "The average kids of age 8 that play computer games..."
Then I would suggest to fire all of the high school, middle school, elemental school teachers. They AREN'T teaching anything! Furthermore, I propose to let the average 8 year old kids to study in universities! Why? They could already do universities' works, why should we keep them in elementary school while they have the capability to be Einstein? (Well, this make me feel dumb. I have about the same intelligent level of 8 year old kids?)

And the brain develops differently. Well, is it a good thing? I have the feeling (with no solid evidence support) that this type of changing the structure of brain sacrifices the flexibility of the young minds. Assume so, then personally I don't think that it is a good thing.

 

[DrummingAtom]

... However, I would reiterate that the single most important person in your education is you. You may have a bad teacher, yes, but ultimately you determine how much you get out of a class. Barring certain extenuating circumstances, a poor grade is almost always a reflection of a lack of ability, lack of effort, or both.

I agree with this; Darren has brought up some great points. For me, especially with Math/Physics classes, the teacher has very little impact on my understanding. I have to work on a lot of problems and with various resources to gain mastery of a topic. The teacher does, however, reinforce topics that you've worked on. To me, the most important thing a teacher can do is show the ideas of what's to come. This makes me motivated to learn the new ideas and builds confidence of my previous learned topics.