Faraday's law of mutual induction

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Faraday's law of mutual induction, specifically focusing on how to determine the appropriate surface for calculating magnetic flux and electromotive force (emf). Participants explore theoretical aspects and practical examples related to the application of this law.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to select the surface for calculating flux in mutual induction scenarios.
  • Another participant explains that any orientable surface can be chosen as long as its boundary corresponds to the loop where the emf is being computed, typically opting for a flat surface for simplicity.
  • A participant seeks clarification on whether the boundary must always be the loop for emf calculations and requests examples beyond previously discussed cases.
  • A response confirms that the boundary must indeed be the loop and provides a specific example involving a circular loop of wire placed inside a solenoid, detailing the calculation of emf and its implications for an LED in the circuit.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the necessity of the boundary being the loop for emf calculations, but there is some uncertainty regarding the choice of surface and its implications in different scenarios. The discussion includes both theoretical and practical considerations without reaching a consensus on all aspects.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the need for the chosen surface to be orientable and the preference for flat surfaces to simplify calculations. There is also an acknowledgment of potential confusion regarding these concepts.

darksyesider
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When solving for mutual induction, how do you know what surface to take the flux over?
 
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You are allowed to choose any surface* as long as its boundary is the loop around which you are computing the emf. In general you choose a flat surface if that's possible, so as to make calculations easier, but you could choose whatever surface you like as long as it has the right boundary.

* okay, not quite any surface -- you have to choose an orientable surface, but you don't need to worry about that unless you are deliberately being perverse.
 
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So you ALWAYS make the boundary the loop where you're computing the emf?
Can you think, by any chance, of an example of this? (besides coaxial cables which i made a post about a few days/hours ago)
 
Yes, the loop around which you are computing the emf must always be the boundary of the surface.
If you are confused about this, I would suggest that you watch Walter Lewin talk about it (start at 5:00) if you haven't already.

As for an example, basically any Faraday's Law problem will do the trick.

Here's an example: A circuit consisting of a circular loop of wire (radius 1 cm) and an LED is placed inside a solenoid, with the loop of wire concentric with the coils of the solenoid. The solenoid is turned on and the magnetic field inside smoothly increases to 0.1 T over 0.001 seconds. The LED has a 1 ohm resistance and will explode if a current greater than 50 mA flows through it. Does the LED survive?

Answer: We want to calculate the EMF of the circuit, so the circuit has to be the boundary of my surface. I choose the flat surface, which is just a circle, and in this case I am in luck -- the magnetic field is perpendicular to that surface. So the magnetic flux is BA. The rate of change of magnetic flux is 0.1 T * pi(0.01 m)2/0.001 s = 0.01*pi Tm2/s. Therefore, the emf is 0.031 V, which produces a current of 31 mA. That is not enough to explode the LED.
 
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