Find the current I in this electrical circuit

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the current in an electrical circuit involving resistors of 3 ohms, 6 ohms, and 9 ohms. Participants are analyzing the configuration of these resistors, particularly focusing on series and parallel arrangements, and the implications of a short-circuited resistor.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore various configurations of the resistors, questioning whether certain resistors are in series or parallel. There are attempts to calculate the current based on different assumptions about the circuit setup.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights and questioning each other's reasoning. Some guidance has been offered regarding the implications of the 6 ohm resistor being short-circuited, which has led to further exploration of the circuit's behavior.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of potential discrepancies in provided answer options, and participants are encouraged to verify their calculations against these options. The discussion also highlights the complexity some participants feel regarding the concepts of current division and resistor configurations.

  • #31
Would introducing Kirchhoff's voltage law make the problem too easy to solve?
 
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  • #32
Helly123 said:
View attachment 216507 For this matter, what everyone think, that BD is short circuit or not?
Not any more. Looks a lot differrent from the circuit in post #1 !

Here you simply draw the top right quarter circle as a horizontal line, erect the 6 ##\Omega## and see that it's parallel to the other 6 ##\Omega##
VDC= 6 V and Bob is the brother of your mother
 
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  • #33
:headbang: How do I manage to get this arithmetic wrong?! Yes we could just say the current through the 3 Ω resistor is ##\frac{9.6}{3}## = 3.2 A, and then the flow through the 9 Ω resistor is a third as much = (1 + 0.2/3) adding up to (4.2 + 0.2/3) = 4.26666... ≈ 4.27 A as you say. :blushing:
 
  • #34
If you want to work in fractions, write 9.6 as 96/10, then work through the fractions. Thus:

##I = \frac{96}{10} \left( \frac{1}{3} + \frac{1}{9} \right)\;A##
 
  • #35
gneill said:
If you want to work in fractions, write 9.6 as 96/10, then work through the fractions. Thus:

##I = \frac{96}{10} \left( \frac{1}{3} + \frac{1}{9} \right)\;A##
Just a note - working in fractions, or just exact for that matter, is very nice in mathematics, but when solving basic physics problems like these, i see no benefit - it can even obscure the result which with a reduced fraction givs 64/15 A. This does not give an intuitive knowledge of the 'normal' kind of values for these problems.
 
  • #36
gneill said:
If you want to work in fractions, write 9.6 as 96/10, then work through the fractions. Thus:

##I = \frac{96}{10} \left( \frac{1}{3} + \frac{1}{9} \right)\;A##

Yeah I thought of that too.

aa_o said:
Just a note - working in fractions, or just exact for that matter, is very nice in mathematics, but when solving basic physics problems like these, i see no benefit - it can even obscure the result which with a reduced fraction givs 64/15 A. This does not give an intuitive knowledge of the 'normal' kind of values for these problems.

I used to think that too. :oldbiggrin:
 
  • #37
aa_o said:
Just a note - working in fractions, or just exact for that matter, is very nice in mathematics, but when solving basic physics problems like these, i see no benefit - it can even obscure the result which with a reduced fraction givs 64/15 A. This does not give an intuitive knowledge of the 'normal' kind of values for these problems.
When you're comfortable with fractions, then I feel that the fraction result conveys the same information. Besides, you can always reduce the final result to a decimal version quickly enough.
 
  • #38
gneill said:
When you're comfortable with fractions, then I feel that the fraction result conveys the same information. Besides, you can always reduce the final result to a decimal version quickly enough.
Then I would highly recommend working symbolically, since this elucidates the relationships between the quantities in the configuration much clearer than does fractions. And this, too, will of course give the exact result if wished in the end.
 
  • #39
aa_o said:
Then I would highly recommend working symbolically, since this elucidates the relationships between the quantities in the configuration much clearer than does fractions. And this, too, will of course give the exact result if wished in the end.
Of course. Work symbolically as much as possible. In the end you'll still have an expression that needs to have values substituted and the math performed.
 
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  • #40
If the 3 ohm and 9 ohm were series, then we found the answer 0,8 A which is on the options... so the 3 ohm and 9 ohm not series but parallel?
 
  • #41
Of which diagram ?
 
  • #42
BvU said:
Of which diagram ?
The #1 diagram
 
  • #43
You can see that they are en parallel, since both of the resistor terminals (of the 3 and 9 ohm resistors) share the same nodes.
If there's no option for giving around 4.27 A as an answer, there is a mistake in the options.
 
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  • #44
This one

upload_2017-12-12_9-19-35.png


equals
upload_2017-12-12_9-20-2.png

equals
upload_2017-12-12_9-21-5.png
Which for some unspecified reason still shows a resistor between B and C in the post but not in the picture attached (below riight) ?:)

Obviously parallel , right ?
 

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  • #45
Yet another way to think about it.

Circular-resistance3.jpg


If this handful of resistors and 9.6V battery were wired together it would be as though a jumper wire was connected across the 6Ω resistor.

What are the current path(s)?

A useful formula valid when two (and only two!) resistors are connected in parallel is Rt=(Ra*Rb)/(Ra+Rb).
 

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  • #46
Thanks guys. How about this?
k1vt6b.jpg


Is the 6o hm (A) short circuit (jumper wire)?

8zr5gm.jpg


Is the BD short circuit (jumper wire)?
 

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  • #47
Helly123 said:
Thanks guys. How about this? View attachment 216636
Is the BD short circuit (jumper wire)?
Can you draw a line from B to D without going through any components?
 
  • #48
aa_o said:
Can you draw a line from B to D without going through any components?
I suppose, i can not, it goes through AB. Isnt it?
 
  • #49
Helly123 said:
I suppose, i can not, it goes through AB. Isnt it?
Yes, so it is not shorted.
 
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  • #50
aa_o said:
Yes, so it is not shorted.
View attachment 216636

Is the 6o hm (A) short circuit (jumper wire)?
 
Last edited:
  • #51
Helly123 said:
View attachment 216636

Is the 6o hm (A) short circuit (jumper wire)?
Let's ask this in another way. Is the voltage the same at both sides of the resistor?

Start at the positive battery terminal, and trace the circuit with your finger ...
Label the 6 ohm resistor "RA", one side of the resistor Z, and the other side Z'.
What is the voltage at Z?
9.6 volts.

And at Z'?
Also, 9.6 volts.

CircRes1.jpg


What does Ohm's law tell us? If the voltage is the same at both sides of the resistor (that is, voltage drop across the resistor is zero) then IRA=VRA/RA = 0 volts/6 ohms = 0 amps.

In effect, 6 ohm resistor RA is shorted by the "wire" between point Z and Z'.

In this drawing it's the same for connections between RA and RB. The only component with a voltage drop across it is the 9 ohm resistor RC.

Let's re-state the problem in yet another way.
RA is a 6 ohm resistor in parallel with a 0 ohm wire between point Z and Z'.
The general rule is that total resistance for two resistors in parallel is less than the smaller resistor. In this special case the smaller resistor is 0 ohms, and limits total resistance to 0 ohms.
 

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  • #52
Thank you for the explanation :)
 
  • #53
Asymptotic said:
In this drawing it's the same for connections between RA and RB. The only component with a voltage drop across it is the 9 ohm resistor RC.

So both A and B are short circuit, because the voltage stream in left side and right side are zero. I see.
 

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