Finding Impulse And Frequency Responses

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on determining the impulse and frequency responses of a linear time-invariant (LTI) system defined by a specific difference equation. The frequency response is derived as H(e^(jω)) = -2 + 4e^(-jω) - 2e^(-2jω). The impulse response is calculated using the inverse discrete-time Fourier transform (DTFT), leading to the result h[n] = {-2, 4, -2}. Participants confirm the correctness of this result and suggest alternative methods for finding the impulse response, including sending an impulse through the system and using L'Hôpital's rule for evaluating integrals. The conversation emphasizes the mathematical processes involved in deriving these responses.
Captain1024
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Homework Statement


Consider a LTI system defined by the following difference equation: ##\mathrm{y}[n]=-2x[n]+4x[n-1]-2x[n-2]##
a) Determine the impulse response of the system
b) Determine the frequency response of the system

Homework Equations


DTFT: ##\mathrm{x}[n]=\frac{1}{2\pi}\int_{\pi}^{-\pi} \mathrm{X}(e^{j\omega})e^{j\omega n} d\omega \ \longleftrightarrow \ \mathrm{X}(e^{j\omega})=\sum_{n=-\infty}^{\infty} \mathrm{x}[n]e^{-j\omega n}##

The Attempt at a Solution


I started by finding the frequency response:
##\mathrm{Y}(e^{j\omega})=-2\mathrm{X}(e^{j\omega})+4e^{-j\omega}\mathrm{X}(e^{j\omega})-2e^{-2j\omega}\mathrm{X}(e^{j\omega})##
##=\mathrm{X}(e^{j\omega})(-2+4e^{-j\omega}-2e^{-2j\omega})##
Frequency response ##\mathrm{H}(e^{j\omega})=-2+4e^{-j\omega}-2e^{-2j\omega}##

My work on impulse response:
##\mathrm{h}[n]=\frac{1}{2\pi}\int_{-\pi}^{\pi}(-2+4e^{-j\omega}-2e^{-2j\omega})e^{j\omega n}d\omega##
##=\frac{1}{2\pi}\int_{-\pi}^{\pi}-2e^{j\omega n}+4e^{-j\omega}e^{j\omega n}-2e^{-2j\omega}e^{j\omega n}d\omega##
##=\frac{1}{2\pi}\int_{-\pi}^{\pi}-2e^{j\omega n}+4e^{j\omega (n-1)}-2e^{j\omega (n-2)}d\omega##

I believe the answer is ##\mathrm{h}[n]=\{-2, 4, -2\}##. Am i overthinking how to arrive at the answer or am I on the right track?

-Captain1024
 
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Captain1024 said:

Homework Statement


Consider a LTI system defined by the following difference equation: ##\mathrm{y}[n]=-2x[n]+4x[n-1]-2x[n-2]##
a) Determine the impulse response of the system
b) Determine the frequency response of the system

Homework Equations


DTFT: ##\mathrm{x}[n]=\frac{1}{2\pi}\int_{\pi}^{-\pi} \mathrm{X}(e^{j\omega})e^{j\omega n} d\omega \ \longleftrightarrow \ \mathrm{X}(e^{j\omega})=\sum_{n=-\infty}^{\infty} \mathrm{x}[n]e^{-j\omega n}##

The Attempt at a Solution


I started by finding the frequency response:
##\mathrm{Y}(e^{j\omega})=-2\mathrm{X}(e^{j\omega})+4e^{-j\omega}\mathrm{X}(e^{j\omega})-2e^{-2j\omega}\mathrm{X}(e^{j\omega})##
##=\mathrm{X}(e^{j\omega})(-2+4e^{-j\omega}-2e^{-2j\omega})##
Frequency response ##\mathrm{H}(e^{j\omega})=-2+4e^{-j\omega}-2e^{-2j\omega}##

My work on impulse response:
##\mathrm{h}[n]=\frac{1}{2\pi}\int_{-\pi}^{\pi}(-2+4e^{-j\omega}-2e^{-2j\omega})e^{j\omega n}d\omega##
##=\frac{1}{2\pi}\int_{-\pi}^{\pi}-2e^{j\omega n}+4e^{-j\omega}e^{j\omega n}-2e^{-2j\omega}e^{j\omega n}d\omega##
##=\frac{1}{2\pi}\int_{-\pi}^{\pi}-2e^{j\omega n}+4e^{j\omega (n-1)}-2e^{j\omega (n-2)}d\omega##

I believe the answer is ##\mathrm{h}[n]=\{-2, 4, -2\}##. Am i overthinking how to arrive at the answer or am I on the right track?

-Captain1024
Yes, I believe you are correct. :smile:

Note: It's been awhile since I've done this. That said, your answers seem to be correct, as far as I can tell.

Regarding the impulse response: It's exceedingly easy to find the impulse response of a finite impulse response (FIR) filter. You merely send an impulse through and record what y is at each offset. I assume that is how you obtained your result of \mathrm{h}[n]=\{-2, 4, -2\}, which is correct.

You could also find the impulse response by taking the inverse DTFT of the frequency response. You've already started that approach. That method is a bit tricky (and perhaps unnecessary since there are easier ways to do it), but is certainly possible.

It's a fun idea to do that at least once, if for no other reason to see how the math works out, and even to see where that \frac{1}{2 \pi} comes from in the inverse-DTFT formula.

Here are some hints to help you evaluate that integral, and obtain the impulse response by taking the inverse-DTFT of the frequency response:
  • Each term will be 0 for all values of n expect for a single value of n, which is specific to that term.
  • That particular value of n will result in a 0 in the numerator, and also a 0 in the denominator, resulting in an undefined number.
  • You can find what that number is by using L'Hôpital's[/PLAIN] rule.
  • And since that value is specific to a specific value of n, you can tack on a \delta[n - \nu] on that term, where \nu is a specific number 0, 1, 2, 3, ... etc., specific to that particular term. [Edit: In other words, you'll be tacking on a \delta[n], \delta[n - 1], or \delta[n - 2], etc., on each term.]
  • You might find the following relationships useful: \frac{d}{dn}\{ (-1)^n \} = j \pi (-1)^n and \frac{d}{dn} \{ (-1)^{-n} \} = - j \pi (-1)^{-n}
[Edit: at least that's the way I did it.]

[Another edit: it also may be useful to recognize that e^{j \pi n} = (-1)^n, where n = ... -3, -2, -1, 0, 1, 2, 3, ...]

[Still another edit: Rather than converting the exponentionals to the form of (-1)^n you might instead prefer to take a different approach by recognizing that \frac{e^{j \pi n} - e^{-j \pi n}}{2 j} = \sin(\pi n). This latter approach is perhaps technically better. (It's more rigorous, and doesn't require that n be an integer.)]
 
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