Finding simplest radical form of a 4th root?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the simplest radical form of the expression 4√(x^14). Participants explore the rules for simplifying radical expressions, particularly focusing on the extraction of factors from under the radical and the implications of different values of x (real vs. complex).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about simplifying 4√(x^14) and suggests it can be expressed as x^4√(x^10), but is unsure about further simplification.
  • Another participant explains that for each occurrence of x^4 in the radicand, x can be moved outside the radical, leading to the expression x^3√(x^2).
  • A question is raised about whether √(x^2) can be simplified further to √(x), considering the implications of principal roots.
  • Concerns are noted regarding the simplification of √(x^2) when x is negative, highlighting that √(x^2) = |x| and 4√(x^2) = √|x|, indicating the need for caution with negative values.
  • Further complications are discussed if x is considered as a complex number, referencing the potential issues with power and logarithm identities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the simplification of √(x^2) and the treatment of negative and complex values of x. There is no consensus on the implications of these simplifications, indicating ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of assumptions regarding the nature of x (real vs. complex) and the implications for simplification rules. The discussion highlights the complexities involved in dealing with fractional powers and negative bases.

Apollinaria
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I haven't taken math in years and am having trouble understanding how to find simplest radical form of a 4√(x14).

I said x4√x10.

I realize I have 3 x4ths and x2 but I'm not sure if I can pull out more xs.

What are the rules for this? Ideas, insight?
 
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Apollinaria said:
I haven't taken math in years and am having trouble understanding how to find simplest radical form of a 4√(x14).

I said x4√x10.

I realize I have 3 x4ths and x2 but I'm not sure if I can pull out more xs.

What are the rules for this? Ideas, insight?

For each occurrence of x^4 as a factor in the term of the radicand, you have x to move to outside of the radical function.

[itex]\sqrt[4]{x^{14}}[/itex]=[itex]\sqrt[4]{x^4\cdot x^4\cdot x^4\cdot x^2}[/itex]

=[itex]x^3\sqrt[4]{x^2}[/itex]
 
symbolipoint said:
For each occurrence of x^4 as a factor in the term of the radicand, you have x to move to outside of the radical function.

[itex]\sqrt[4]{x^{14}}[/itex]=[itex]\sqrt[4]{x^4\cdot x^4\cdot x^4\cdot x^2}[/itex]

=[itex]x^3\sqrt[4]{x^2}[/itex]

Can you simplify [itex]\sqrt[4]{x^2}[/itex] still further to [itex]\sqrt{x}[/itex], or does that fall foul of something like principal roots?
 
Hi Apollinaria!

There are a few rules for dealing with radical form, powers from powers, and sums of powers.
Here's how it works in your case:
$$\sqrt[4]{x^{14}} = (x^{14})^{\frac 1 4} = x^{14 \cdot \frac 1 4} = x^{3 + \frac 1 2} = x^3 \cdot x^{\frac 1 2} = x^3 \sqrt x$$
 
sjb-2812 said:
Can you simplify [itex]\sqrt[4]{x^2}[/itex] still further to [itex]\sqrt{x}[/itex], or does that fall foul of something like principal roots?

That doesn't work if x is negative. If you are considering all the complex roots, then [itex]\sqrt[4]{x^2}[/itex] has 4 roots and [itex]\sqrt{x}[/itex] has 2.

But, I think it works if you group together the solutions like [itex]\sqrt[4]{x^2}[/itex] = [itex]\sqrt{x}[/itex] or [itex]\sqrt{-x}[/itex].
 
sjb-2812 said:
Can you simplify [itex]\sqrt[4]{x^2}[/itex] still further to [itex]\sqrt{x}[/itex], or does that fall foul of something like principal roots?

Khashishi said:
That doesn't work if x is negative. If you are considering all the complex roots, then [itex]\sqrt[4]{x^2}[/itex] has 4 roots and [itex]\sqrt{x}[/itex] has 2.

But, I think it works if you group together the solutions like [itex]\sqrt[4]{x^2}[/itex] = [itex]\sqrt{x}[/itex] or [itex]\sqrt{-x}[/itex].

With the assumption that x is a non-negative real, it can be safely simplified.

If x can be a negative real, we have that √(x2) = |x| and 4√(x2)=√|x|.
However, in general we need to be very careful with negative real numbers and fractional powers.
They are generally not well-defined.
See for instance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponentiation#Rational_exponents
(The last couple of lines of the section.)

If x can be a complex number, it becomes even worse:
See for instance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponentiation#Failure_of_power_and_logarithm_identities
 

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