Finding specific heat C_p coefficients using NIST

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding specific heat coefficients at constant pressure (##C_p##) for water and liquid nitrogen using the JANAF model and NIST data. Participants are exploring the derivation of these coefficients and their application in thermophysical properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant is attempting to verify specific heat coefficients for water at approximately 300 K, citing values of ##9850.69, -48.6714, 0.13736##, and ##-0.000127063##.
  • Another participant questions the origin of these coefficients and their relation to the expected value of ##c_p=75.349\ ## J/(K.mol).
  • A participant mentions the derivation of coefficients for liquid nitrogen, suggesting a temperature range of ##-193 < T < -173## Celsius for further analysis.
  • Concerns are raised about a potential mismatch in the coefficients when applying them to the polynomial formula, leading to an unreasonably high result for ##c_p##.
  • It is noted that the NIST data uses the Shomate equation, which includes terms that differ from a simple polynomial form.
  • Clarification is sought regarding the formulas referenced as 23 and 24, with a suggestion that the participant may have meant formula 7.4 instead.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the specific heat coefficients and their derivation. There is no consensus on the correct coefficients or the formulas to be used, indicating multiple competing views and unresolved questions.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the available data and the differences between polynomial and Shomate equation forms, which may affect the derivation of coefficients.

JD_PM
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TL;DR
I am trying to find the specific heat (at constant pressure) ##C_p## coefficients linked to the JANAF model
I am trying to find the specific heat (at constant pressure) ##C_p## coefficients linked to the JANAF model, which basically assumes that ##C_p## is a polynomic function of ##T##, for liquid nitrogen (at ##\approx## 97 K).

Before doing that, I am trying to find those for water (at ##\approx## 300 K) and verify that they are ##9850.69, -48.6714, 0.13736## and ##-0.000127063##.

I am looking into NIST data for water; I checked both gas and condensed thermochemistry data but the coefficients don't match with the above. I also checked the NIST-JANAF thermo tables, for water, but the coefficients are not there.

How to find the desired coefficients for water (at ##\approx## 300 K)? They should be somewhere in the NIST-JANAF table.

Once I see the above it should be straightforward to find those for liquid nitrogen

Thank you! :biggrin:

PS: Actually, I am implementing the thermo-physical properties of liquid nitrogen.
 
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JD_PM said:
Before doing that, I am trying to find those for water (at ##\approx## 300 K) and verify that they are ##9850.69, -48.6714, 0.13736## and ##-0.000127063##.
Where do these come from ? How do they lead to a ##\ c_p=75.349\ ## J/(K.mol) as expected ?

##\ ##
 
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Just for the record, here's an explanation of the JANAF model

74897298478ddsd.png


BvU said:
Where do these come from ? How do they lead to a ##\ c_p=75.349\ ## J/(K.mol) as expected ?

##\ ##

Good question, here is the derivation.

I am trying to find the coefficients for liquid nitrogen online. However, I think the best I could do is follow the same procedure to derive them (not only for ##c_p## but for the density, dynamic viscosity and thermal conductivity).

So I am going to take the temperature range ##-193 < T < -173## Celsius (using ##80K < T < 100K## should also work).

First I am trying to find the density, ##c_p##, dynamic viscosity and thermal conductivity data associated to this temperature range (as done for water in the above derivation).
 
JD_PM said:
Good question, here is the derivation.

Still think there is a mismatch somewhere. I can find no way to get a reasonable ##c_p## with e.g. formula ##(23)## or ##(24)## with such coefficients $$9850.69*300^4 -48.6714*300^3+ 0.13736*300^2 -0.000127063*300 = 7.979 \times 10^{13}\ \ ?$$

##\ ##
 
JD_PM said:
I am looking into NIST data for water; I checked both gas and condensed thermochemistry data but the coefficients don't match with the above.
The NIST data is for the Shomate equation, which is not polynomial (note the ##E/t^2## term).
 
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BvU said:
Still think there is a mismatch somewhere. I can find no way to get a reasonable ##c_p## with e.g. formula ##(23)## or ##(24)## with such coefficients $$9850.69*300^4 -48.6714*300^3+ 0.13736*300^2 -0.000127063*300 = 7.979 \times 10^{13}\ \ ?$$

##\ ##

There are no formulas numbered 23 nor 24. Did you mean 7.4 here?
 
JD_PM said:
Just for the record, here's an explanation of the JANAF model
https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/298450
 

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