Finding the density inside a tank as air escapes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a homework problem involving the calculation of air density in a tank as air escapes isothermally at a constant volumetric rate. Participants explore the application of mass conservation principles and the appropriate mathematical expressions to describe the system.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a mass conservation equation but expresses uncertainty about the correctness of their derived equation for density over time, stating it does not seem right.
  • Another participant points out potential dimensional inconsistencies in the mass conservation equation and suggests using standard symbols for density (##\rho##) and pressure (##p##) to avoid confusion.
  • A participant acknowledges their initial misunderstanding of the notation and attempts to clarify their equation, but still faces issues with the dimensional consistency of the terms involved.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding the units of the terms in the mass conservation equation, highlighting that the summands do not match dimensionally.
  • One participant introduces the concept of initial mass in the tank and suggests a relationship involving mass flow over time to help derive the density expression.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of the initial mass conservation equation and its dimensional consistency. There is no consensus on the correct formulation or approach to solving the problem.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved issues regarding the dimensional analysis of the proposed equations and the need for clearer definitions of symbols used in the discussion.

Lee Cousins
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Homework Statement



A tank of constant volume V contains air at an initial density pi. Air is discharged isothermally from the tank at a constant volumetric rate of Q (with SI units of m^3/s). Assuming that the discharged air has the same density as that of the air in the tank, find an expression for the density in the tank, p(t).

There's also a diagram of the circular control volume V with one outlet which air escapes at Q.

Homework Equations


Mass conservation equation is integral of (p dv) + integral of (pv*dA) = 0

The Attempt at a Solution


I got the equation down to dp/dt = (-pi*Q)/V but that's not right so I'm not sure what to do from here.
 
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Lee Cousins said:

Homework Equations


Mass conservation equation is integral of (p dv) + integral of (pv*dA) = 0

There must be something wrong with this equation. The two summands have different dimensions.

Plus I suggest to use the common symbols. The density's symbol is ##\rho## (rho), whereas ##p## stands for the pressure. Also the symbol ##v## is confusing (I suppose it should be the velocity). However, try to use the common symbols and also explain them in the text, if they could be ambiguously (##v## also could be the specific volume, then ##\int p dv## would be something completely different).
 
stockzahn said:
There must be something wrong with this equation. The two summands have different dimensions.

Plus I suggest to use the common symbols. The density's symbol is ##\rho## (rho), whereas ##p## stands for the pressure. Also the symbol ##v## is confusing (I suppose it should be the velocity). However, try to use the common symbols and also explain them in the text, if they could be ambiguously (##v## also could be the specific volume, then ##\int p dv## would be something completely different).


Okay, I'm new to this but I meant to say ##\int ##\rho## dv## + ##\int ##\rho## V dA##

I can't quite get the syntax down. But its the integral with respect to the control volume of the density * the dv (volume) + the integral with respect to the surface area of the density * the volume * dA (Area)
 
Lee Cousins said:
Okay, I'm new to this but I meant to say ##\int ##\rho## dv## + ##\int ##\rho## V dA##

I can't quite get the syntax down. But its the integral with respect to the control volume of the density * the dv (volume) + the integral with respect to the surface area of the density * the volume * dA (Area)

Regarding the syntax: You only have to write two hashtags before and after the entire expression, not for every symbol.

However, the first summand in your equation ##\int \rho dv## has the unit ##kg/m^3 \cdot m^3 = kg##. The second summand in your equation ##\int \rho v dA## has the unit ##kg/m^3 \cdot m^3 \cdot m^2 = kg\cdot m^2##. So the units are not consistent.

You start with an initial mass of air ##m_0## in the tank. Then there is a mass flow ##\dot{m}## exiting the tank with time. Now the mass conservation says that the mass in the tank must be the initial mass minus the air flow over the time.

##m_0-\dot{m}t=m\left(t\right)##

Based on this equation, try to find the answer by substituting, re-arranging etc.
 

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