Flight Mach number in terms of fuel flow rate and other parameters

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the Mach number in relation to fuel flow rates and other parameters for a turbojet engine performance analysis. Participants explore the manipulation of equations to derive a usable formula for their aerospace project, focusing on thrust versus Mach number plots.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines their approach to derive the Mach number using various equations related to turbojet performance, including thrust and fuel flow rates.
  • Another participant shares results from Wolfram Alpha, suggesting that a specific variable (A) does not influence the solution.
  • A later post indicates that a meeting with the professor revealed a mistake in the formula, which affected the dependency on Mach number, leading to a resolution of the issue.
  • Additional posts reference the use of Wolfram Alpha for verification, with some confusion regarding the output and its implications.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the initial formula's correctness, as one participant identifies an error that was later confirmed by a professor. However, the discussion includes multiple attempts to derive a solution, indicating ongoing uncertainty and exploration.

Contextual Notes

Participants express limitations in their understanding and the complexity of the equations involved. There are unresolved aspects regarding the dependency of certain variables and the implications of the outputs from computational tools.

roldy
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I've posted on here in relation to an aerospace analysis project I'm doing. I'm stuck on one part of the project where I need to develop the performance envelope of the turbojet engine. 3 of the 9 plots that are required are Thrust vs. Mach number. On each of those plots I'll about 7 different lines that correspond to different fuel flow rates. My professor suggested to me that I find what the resulting mach number would be with a prescribed fuel flow rate and the other parameters of P_0, T_o, \pi_c, \eta_c, \dot{m}_{corr,2} that is stated in the problem.

What's important here is the manipulation of equations to arrive at something I can use. I've tried solving this by hand and using MATLAB various times but no luck. I'm hoping that if I post my work here someone can see if I made an error in my understanding of this.

Work:

<br /> \dot{m}_fh=\dot{m}_aT_{t2}\left(\frac{T_{t4}}{T_{t2}}-\tauc{\tau_r}\right)<br />
<br /> \tau_c=1 + \frac{\pi_c^{\frac{\gamma-1}{\gamma}}-1}{\eta_c}<br />
<br /> \tau_r=1+\frac{\gamma-1}{2}{M_0}^2<br />
<br /> T_{t2}=T_0\left(1+\frac{\gamma-1}{2}{M_0}^2\right)<br />
<br /> \frac{T_{t4}}{T_{t2}}=\left(\frac{compdesignline}{turbdesignline}\right)^2<br />

<br /> \dot{m}_a=\frac{P_{t2}}{P_{stp}}\frac{\dot{m}_{corr,2}}{\sqrt{\frac{T_{t2}}{T_{stp}}}}<br />

<br /> P_{t2}=P_0\left(1+\frac{\gamma-1}{2}{M_0}^2\right)<br />

The Work:

Plug in the equations for \dot{m}_a, T_{t2}, \frac{T_{t4}}{T_{t2}}, \tau_c, \tau_r

<br /> \dot{m}_fh=\frac{P_{t2}}{P_{stp}}\frac{\dot{m}_{corr,2}}{\sqrt{\frac{T_{t2}}{T_{stp}}}}T_0\left(1+\frac{\gamma-1}{2}{M_0}^2\right)\left(\left(\frac{compdesignline}{turbdesignline}\right)^2-\left(1 + \frac{\pi_c^{\frac{\gamma-1}{\gamma}}-1}{\eta_c}\right)\left(1+\frac{\gamma-1}{2}{M_0}^2\right)\right)<br />

Now I rewrite the radical as something I can deal with easier and substitute in for P_{t2}, and T_{t2}. Shown in two steps

<br /> \dot{m}_fh=\frac{P_0\left(1+\frac{\gamma-1}{2}{M_0}^2\right)}{P_{stp}}\frac{\dot{m}_{corr,2}\sqrt{T_{stp}}}{\sqrt{T_{t2}}}}}T_0\left(1+\frac{\gamma-1}{2}{M_0}^2\right)\left(\left(\frac{compdesignline}{turbdesignline}\right)^2-\left(1 + \frac{\pi_c^{\frac{\gamma-1}{\gamma}}-1}{\eta_c}\right)\left(1+\frac{\gamma-1}{2}{M_0}^2\right)\right)<br />

<br /> \dot{m}_fh=\frac{P_0\left(1+\frac{\gamma-1}{2}{M_0}^2\right)}{P_{stp}}\frac{\dot{m}_{corr,2}\sqrt{T_{stp}}}{\sqrt{T_0\left(1+\frac{\gamma-1}{2}{M_0}^2\right)}}}}T_0\left(1+\frac{\gamma-1}{2}{M_0}^2\right)\left(\left(\frac{compdesignline}{turbdesignline}\right)^2-\left(1 + \frac{\pi_c^{\frac{\gamma-1}{\gamma}}-1}{\eta_c}\right)\left(1+\frac{\gamma-1}{2}{M_0}^2\right)\right)<br />

Now I collect the constants and call them some variable and name stuff in parenthesis a variable (the ones that don't have Mach number).

Let
<br /> A=\frac{P_0\dot{m}_{corr,2}\sqrt{T_{stp}}T_0}{P_{stp}\sqrt{T_0}}<br />
<br /> B=\left(\frac{compdesignline}{turbdesignline}\right)^2<br />
<br /> C=1 + \frac{\pi_c^{\frac{\gamma-1}{\gamma}}-1}{\eta_c}<br />
<br /> D=\dot{m}_fh<br />

Then
<br /> D=A\frac{\left(1+\frac{\gamma-1}{2}{M_0}^2\right)}{\sqrt{\left(1+\frac{\gamma-1}{2}{M_0}^2\right)}}\left(1+\frac{\gamma-1}{2}{M_0}^2\right)\left(B^2-C\left(1+\frac{\gamma-1}{2}{M_0}^2\right)\right)<br />

And now letting
<br /> E=1+\frac{\gamma-1}{2}{M_0}^2<br />

<br /> D=A\frac{E^2}{E^{\frac{1}{2}}}(B^2-CE^2)<br />

Simplifying

<br /> D=AE^\frac{3}{2}(B^2-CE^2)<br />

Multiplying out

<br /> D=AB^2E^\frac{3}{2}-ACE^{\frac{7}{2}}<br />

To get rid of the 1/2 power I let F=E^\frac{1}{2}

<br /> D=AB^2F^3-ACF^7<br />

Now I want to solve this for F, since F is a function of E and E is a function of M_0...which is what I need.

Here's the MATLAB code I used to try and solve this along with the result

EDU>> syms A B C D F
EDU>>
EDU>> D=A*B^2*F^3-A*C*F^7

D =

A*B^2*F^3-A*C*F^7


EDU>> solve(D,F)

ans =

0
0
0
(B/C^(1/2))^(1/2)
-(B/C^(1/2))^(1/2)
i*(B/C^(1/2))^(1/2)
-i*(B/C^(1/2))^(1/2)


EDU>>

This is not what I need. I'm looking for a formula that as all the variables in it.
 
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I placed it in wolfram alpha and got

[PLAIN]http://www3.wolframalpha.com/Calculate/MSP/MSP1140019edbg4a1641h8h90000698bi1b8b7cf9c68?MSPStoreType=image/gif&s=42&w=147&h=49

[PLAIN]http://www3.wolframalpha.com/Calculate/MSP/MSP1140219edbg4a1641h8h9000067b4gbfgde9c66ee?MSPStoreType=image/gif&s=42&w=155&h=49

[PLAIN]http://www3.wolframalpha.com/Calculate/MSP/MSP1140419edbg4a1641h8h9000026e611fehai60fdh?MSPStoreType=image/gif&s=42&w=37&h=20

Reference

This simply means A has no bearing on the solution.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I actually met with the professor and come to find out, the formula had a mistake in it. There was a term dependent on M_0 that wasn't suppose to be in there. I got the solution now. Thanks for the reply though and the effort.
 
viscousflow said:
I placed it in wolfram alpha and got

[PLAIN]http://www3.wolframalpha.com/Calculate/MSP/MSP1140019edbg4a1641h8h90000698bi1b8b7cf9c68?MSPStoreType=image/gif&s=42&w=147&h=49

[PLAIN]http://www3.wolframalpha.com/Calculate/MSP/MSP1140219edbg4a1641h8h9000067b4gbfgde9c66ee?MSPStoreType=image/gif&s=42&w=155&h=49

[PLAIN]http://www3.wolframalpha.com/Calculate/MSP/MSP1140419edbg4a1641h8h9000026e611fehai60fdh?MSPStoreType=image/gif&s=42&w=37&h=20

Reference

This simply means A has no bearing on the solution.

Red x's? wolfram alpha generates red x's?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I used the link directly from the site, meaning it was temporary. Click the reference link I placed there to see what was there.
 
viscousflow said:
I used the link directly from the site, meaning it was temporary. Click the reference link I placed there to see what was there.

Ah! Thank you. :)
 

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