Fluid Drag on a wire inside of a pipe

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on calculating the drag force on a fiber optic cable positioned inside a small diameter pipe, specifically focusing on the effects of fluid dynamics and viscous coupling. Participants explore various methods to determine the drag force and the implications of fluid temperature on their measurements.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about calculating the drag force on a fiber optic cable inside a pipe, noting discrepancies between experimental results and theoretical methods.
  • Another participant suggests using the effective hydraulic diameter created by the wire inside the pipe to find pressure loss, referencing external resources for further reading.
  • A participant clarifies that their primary concern is determining the force required to lift the wire using fluid friction, rather than the pressure drop across the annulus.
  • One contributor mentions the drag equation and highlights the potential impact of the cable's diameter relative to the pipe, suggesting that this may create significant restrictions affecting flow dynamics.
  • Concerns are raised about how drag is being measured and whether the wire's interaction with the pipe is influencing results, along with considerations of viscosity and Reynolds number in low-velocity scenarios.
  • Another participant notes the orientation of the cable (parallel to the pipe) and questions the applicability of the drag equation in this configuration.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the methods for calculating drag and the factors influencing it, indicating that multiple competing approaches and uncertainties remain in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various assumptions regarding fluid dynamics, including the influence of viscosity, the geometry of the cable and pipe, and the conditions under which measurements are taken. There are unresolved questions about the exact nature of the drag forces and how they are being quantified.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those involved in fluid dynamics, engineering applications related to cable installations, and experimental physics, particularly in contexts where fluid interactions with solid objects are relevant.

EzeTom
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Hi Folks,

How would one go about calculating the drag force that would be applied to a wire (or in our case a small (0.130") fiber optic cable, that is inside of a small diameter pipe (.56")? I've tried several methods, but none seem to match what we actually measure when experimenting. We have determined viscous coupling to be a large component of the drag, as the fluid temp (Water) does drasticly change our results.

Thanks for the great forum!
 
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EzeTom said:
Hi Folks,

How would one go about calculating the drag force that would be applied to a wire (or in our case a small (0.130") fiber optic cable, that is inside of a small diameter pipe (.56")? I've tried several methods, but none seem to match what we actually measure when experimenting. We have determined viscous coupling to be a large component of the drag, as the fluid temp (Water) does drasticly change our results.

Thanks for the great forum!

A wire inside of a pipe would form an annulus. Are you trying to find the pressure loss due to the wire inside the pipe? If so, just use the effective hydraulic diameter created by the wire inside of the pipe.

Here is an example:

http://www.pipeflow.co.uk/public/articles/Non_Circular_Pipe_Friction.pdf

CS
 
Thanks for the quick reply,

We are not so concerned of the pressure drop across the anulus, what we need is to determine how hard we will have to pump in the annulus, to apply some force (f) to the wire inside.

What we are trying to do, is lift a wire (without) direct mechanical contact, with fluid friction only, through means of some "velocity" string or such.

I'll make a sketch and post it.
 
im sure you did the age old: D = 1/2 * rho * v^2 * S * Cd

also since the diameter of your fiber optic cable is nearly 20% of the diameter of the pipe, you may need to consider there is a large restriction in the pipe. there's probably some study on that...probably from a civil engineering site (something similar to thin vs. finite thickness airfoil theory, but probably less involved math)

how are you measuring the drag? is the wire completely isolated from the pipe, or are you inadvertently measuring the drag along the inside the pipe as well? (see link above)

also, part of the viscosity. of course viscosity will play a significant role, your velocity is quite low, therefore your Reynolds number is low, and by definition with low Reynolds number, viscous effects play a significant role. perhaps look at viscous drag or skin friction drag in fluid dynamics books. flat plates are the norm for that analysis, although there must be adaptation to circular cross sections

just thought of this...is the cable perpendicular to the pipe or parallel? if its parallel, i can see how the D = 1/2 * rho * v^2 * S * Cd won't help much
 
Hi,

The cable is parallel to the pipe, here is a sketch of what's going on. We have the ability to pump at very high pressures/rates (upwards of 10k PSI)
 

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    Velocity string.JPG
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