Fluid dynamics: pressure in pipes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of fluid pressure and velocity in a pipe system, particularly focusing on a scenario where the diameter of a pipe decreases. Participants explore the implications of this change in diameter on pressure and velocity, referencing Bernoulli's principle. The context includes theoretical considerations of fluid dynamics and energy conservation in a closed system.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that as the diameter of the pipe decreases, the velocity of the fluid must increase, leading to a decrease in pressure according to Bernoulli's principle.
  • Others argue that pressure represents energy density, and any increase in kinetic energy must result from a drop in pressure, suggesting that the pressure in the narrower section of the pipe is lower.
  • A participant expresses initial confusion, thinking that a smaller pipe would have higher pressure, but later acknowledges that the pressure is actually lower in the smaller section due to the increase in fluid velocity.
  • There is a discussion about the necessity of a pressure difference between the larger and smaller pipes to facilitate the acceleration of the fluid, indicating that the pressure must be higher in the larger pipe.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the application of Bernoulli's principle and the relationship between fluid velocity and pressure in a pipe system. However, there is some initial confusion regarding the implications of pipe diameter on pressure, indicating a nuanced understanding of the concepts involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants assume minimal energy loss in the pipe system and maintain that the density of the fluid remains constant throughout the discussion. There are unresolved aspects regarding the exact nature of pressure changes and the conditions under which Bernoulli's principle applies.

ikihi
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So I've been discussing this problem with my plumber dad. I uploaded the picture.
I'm wondering if the pressure would change in the red pipe since the diameter decreases to 4 cm. Assume the 1st 10 cm pipe is full with water.

Question: If the home pressure is 517 kPa going through first pipe, would the pressure and velocity of water increase locally in the red pipe?
 

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ikihi said:
So I've been discussing this problem with my plumber dad. I uploaded the picture.
I'm wondering if the pressure would change in the red pipe since the diameter decreases to 4 cm. Assume the 1st 10 cm pipe is full with water.

Question: If the home pressure is 517 kPa going through first pipe, would the pressure and velocity of water increase locally in the red pipe?
The flow rate has to be the same in all 3 sections. So the speed of the fluid has to increase in the red section and then decrease in the next black section. In speeding up the fluid gains kinetic energy.

Pressure represents energy density - potential energy per unit volume. Assuming there is minimal energy loss in the pipe, the energy in the fluid must be conserved. So any gain of kinetic energy must come from a drop in pressure.

So the pressure in the red pipe is lower. This is Bernoulli's principle.

AM
 
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Andrew Mason said:
The flow rate has to be the same in all 3 sections. So the speed of the fluid has to increase in the red section and then decrease in the next black section. In speeding up the fluid gains kinetic energy.

Pressure represents energy density - potential energy per unit volume. Assuming there is minimal energy loss in the pipe, the energy in the fluid must be conserved. So any gain of kinetic energy must come from a drop in pressure.

So the pressure in the red pipe is lower. This is Bernoulli's principle.

AM

I see. So in middle red pipe, the fluid will increase in velocity which causes less pressure on water in that pipe in the system. That's kind of funny. At first I thought there would be more pressure on the smaller pipe, but it makes sense now.
 
ikihi said:
I see. So in middle red pipe, the fluid will increase in velocity which causes less pressure on water in that pipe in the system. That's kind of funny. At first I thought there would be more pressure on the smaller pipe, but it makes sense now.
That's right. We tend to think of fluid confined to a smaller space as having higher pressure. But this is does not involve the compression of fluid. The density of the fluid is the same throughout the pipe system.

You can think of it this way: a pressure difference between the larger pipe and the smaller pipe is needed to accelerate the water in the smaller pipe. So the pressure in the larger pipe has to be higher. On the other end, the fluid in the smaller red section must slow down when entering the larger section, so the pressure must again be higher in the black section than in the red.

AM
 

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