Frequency of Photons: Conceptualizing & Oscillation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conceptualization of the frequency of photons in relation to electromagnetic radiation. Participants explore how this property manifests in photons, the nature of oscillation, and the implications of frequency on energy and momentum. The scope includes theoretical considerations and conceptual clarifications regarding the relationship between frequency, energy, and the behavior of electromagnetic waves.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to conceptualize the frequency of photons and whether they oscillate in space, asking about the orientation of such oscillation and its amplitude.
  • Another participant argues against the idea of visualizing photons as oscillating entities, suggesting that frequency should be understood in terms of energy and momentum rather than as a physical oscillation.
  • A third participant references Planck's relation, stating that frequency determines the energy of photons and connects wavelength and frequency to momentum through de Broglie's relation.
  • Another contribution emphasizes that frequency in electromagnetic waves indicates the strength of the wave at a point in space and how this strength varies over time, using a simplified example to illustrate the concept.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conceptualization of photon frequency, with some suggesting it can be visualized in terms of oscillation while others reject this notion. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on how to understand the relationship between frequency, energy, and the nature of photons.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the visualization of frequency and oscillation, as well as the dependence on definitions of terms like "strength" in the context of electromagnetic waves. The discussion does not resolve these complexities.

blaisem
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When we say the frequency of electromagnetic radiation, how can we conceptualize this property's manifestation in photons?

Are the photons oscillating in space with the corresponding frequency? If yes, would this oscillation be parallel, perpendicular, or something else with respect to the direction of propagation, and what would determine its amplitude?

I suppose this question could apply to any particle. Thank you for your time!
 
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blaisem said:
When we say the frequency of electromagnetic radiation, how can we conceptualize this property's manifestation in photons?
It is generally a bad idea. What we do instead is use the concept to work out properties of the radiation. The properties we care about depend on how we look at it.

Photon frequency should be thought of as energy and momentum, since photons belong to the particle model. It's just handy to use frequency for it's links with classical electromagnetism.

Are the photons oscillating in space with the corresponding frequency?
No.
The photon is not usefully thought of as a little vibrating ball of anything.

The "frequency of a photon" is a quantum mechanical property that is analogous to the frequency in electromagnetic waves. In that case, it is the time rate of change of the magnitude of the electric field. How would you "conceptualize" the electric field? But the electromagnetic field stuff is what you get from lots of photons.

See also: photoelectric effect.
 
Frequency (f) determines the quantum of energy per Planck's relation: E = h*f .

Also wavelength * frequency = c, the speed of light. The wavelength (lambda) determines the magnitude of the momentum per de Broglie's relation: p = h/lambda.

So if your laser emits light with wavelength 260 nm you can calculate the energy and momentum of each photon. You should obtain an energy of about 4.5 eV for this wavelength.
 
you can't visualize frequency in terms of mechanical waves like water waves for instance
the frequency of an EM wave indicates its strength at some point , and how its strength changes through time in this point
for instance if you take a point in space in which an EM radiation pass through
say an EM radiation * for the sake of simplicity* having a frequency of 2 Hz * 2 oscilations / sec *
that means that the strength of the field is going to go between 1 to -1 * if it's amplitude is 1 * 2 times in one second in this certain point of space
 

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