Fukushima Fukushima Management and Government Performance

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The discussion centers on the management of the Fukushima disaster and the performance of the Japanese government and TEPCO. Participants acknowledge serious mistakes and communication failures while emphasizing the human element within the nuclear industry, noting that many workers have personal stakes in safety. There is a strong sentiment that public distrust stems from misconceptions about the nuclear industry, which is portrayed as profit-driven and negligent. Despite criticisms, some argue that regulatory oversight and whistleblower protections exist to ensure safety and accountability. Overall, the conversation highlights the complexity of trust in the nuclear sector and the need for continued improvement in safety practices.
  • #331
zapperzero said:
Ah. But that NDA, a part of TEPCO's policy of silence, is making it hard for the rest of us to know what is going on. It was obvious to me that such an agreement existed, because otherwise the Japanese-speaking web would be filled with personal diaries and tweets and picture blogs of Fukushima work and whatnot...

Some items to look at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement

The NDA works in many ways and works for both parties, from the video I am under the impression that the wages, present/future work compensation and conditions are spelled out in the NDA agreement, (I would better guess its a work contract that contains a NDA agreement)

That would be one reason to sign the agreement. It is a legal binding contract that provides protection BOTH ways. My guys know ever line of their contract that benefits them. (And they should, not all contractors will volunteer to comply).

"highlight of the piece: workers required to sign NDAs and waive their right to sue for compensation if they get sick..."

..." because otherwise the Japanese-speaking web would be filled with personal diaries and tweets and picture blogs of Fukushima work and whatnot."

I think you answer the question in your quote... just because you/we may want to know certain information, that does not mandate that any Company has to release it!

First: "...highligh ... requided to sign and waive ..right to sue.. " JUST not a true statement! But its the statemnents such as this that cause the Media deception, and require NDA's. Alot of people won't even read the link, but assume that you stated it correctly... that then spins the web of false information.

Second: I pointed out several important issues that come into play here, but you seem to just ignore then. This leads me to wonder if your real interest lies in the question "why would you sign a NDA?" Not everything is done to "avoid" a lawsuit or "decive" the public, but addmittly Tepco has done this in the past. Tepco and the sub-contractors are prevy to a lot of information that should not be release through the workers.

Third: I say this in all sincerity... Workers that are worring about blogging and diaries may very well be a significant SAFETY hazard. The conditions warrent that ones concentration be foucued on what they are doing, not what they are going to tell the world!.. I have read blogs that reference *tweeting an employee, to get the scoop first* let's hope he did not make a critical mistake that might just cause a futher release/hazard to the area or an other employee at the time! There is always some who will be misstreated and some who will feel that they are intitled to more (or better).

Fourth: Its the tweeting/blogging of bad information that will cause most of the damage of the data! All the information of exposure will be release in the apporperate agencies as time goes on. Sadly most people do not take the time to read all of it or the important footnotes and small print.

I prefer to stay with the topics that relate to mechanics of FUKU. I don't see protest in the streets/employee's walking off the job, so can only assume that the majority of the workers agree to what they are doing.. again its not mandated that they work there!

You might find it interesting to look back at the old Tepco documents, regarding the format of how exposure is (or was then) calculated! (what workers hours vs. levels of exposure/type etc.) It is a typical business model and has merit to keep the data correct in convaying the information, but I was surprised at first to see the format used in the yearly 2000's to calculate exposure. BUT if you don't read the whole thing or fine print it goes right past you. I would link it to you but I went thruough it in the early days and can not locate it. (and do not know that it pretains today) It was from one of the gov't agency that they report the quarterly/yearly amounts.

Here again I would have to little information to know what catagories the sub-contractors would fall under and also the emergency limit would change the model.

There is little that has surprised me since the early days, and unfortunaly I would guess that we should be looking at all plants around the world, but its the technical senerios that are going to keep us from repeating the past again, and Media hype has no place. The employees in question are being paid to do a job, a company has a right and obligation to protect their intellectual property, and in this case I believe the public.. (from false and fearful/stressful release of mis-information).

Have you ever wondered how many of the so called *leaks/malfunctions* have been *planted*. I suspect a few, as some of the bloggers with *connections inside* are right on it!

Also you need not be conserned about the NDA's limiting the release of information to doctors, gov't agencies or other investigating agencies as they are usually expempt from the NDA's. There are certain things that fall under the exceptions, but again I do not follow japanese law and do not have a copy of the NDA's

well time to lurk and look at the technical issues... So how about the Vents!
 
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  • #332
maddog1964 said:
zapperzero said:
The NDA works in many ways and works for both parties, from the video I am under the impression that the wages, present/future work compensation and conditions are spelled out in the NDA agreement, (I would better guess its a work contract that contains a NDA agreement)

That would be one reason to sign the agreement. It is a legal binding contract that provides protection BOTH ways. My guys know ever line of their contract that benefits them. (And they should, not all contractors will volunteer to comply).

This is ridiculous. So what if the NDA and the work contract are conflated in one document? What sort of protection would an NDA grant to the employee? Also, I don't know who "your guys" are and don't think they are relevant in any case.

I think you answer the question in your quote... just because you/we may want to know certain information, that does not mandate that any Company has to release it!

No. TEPCO has no right to hide information about the accident. They had a responsibility and they failed it. It is only normal that they should be watched carefully from now on, especially in what concerns the way they are dealing with the mess they made.

Also you need not be conserned about the NDA's limiting the release of information to doctors, gov't agencies or other investigating agencies as they are usually expempt from the NDA's. There are certain things that fall under the exceptions, but again I do not follow japanese law and do not have a copy of the NDA's

No. I am concerned about the jumpers themselves not coming forward when/if they get ill and about the fact they participated in the cleanup being "lost", obscured.

A doctor will see leukemia and treat leukemia. He will not ask, of his own accord "have you worked at Fukushima?" and even if he does ask, he will NOT explore further, because a causal link is impossible to establish, years later. That detail may not even go into the patient's medical record (which is not publicly accessible in any case) and so may not appear in any epidemiological studies.

Investigating agencies will not necessarily investigate anyone. Even if they try, already there was a story a couple months ago that TEPCO had lost (or had never had, more precisely) any details of the identity and whereabouts of a couple dozen people who had been employed and had worked at the plant, post-accident.
 
  • #333
nikkkom said:
It's been more than half a year since the disaster. Are there ANY investigation results at all regarding the events of the first week?

IIRC in Challenger and Columbia accidents investigators provided reports in about half a year.

There have been two reports from NISA to IAEA.

After TMI which was a single reactor as opposed to the 4 units significantly damaged in Japan. The President's commission report was issued in six months. The Rogovin Commission report took 9 months and the Report to the Pennsylvania Governor took 10 months.

I don;t need to discuss the size of the pry bars that were needed to get information from Chernobyl.
 
  • #334
NUCENG said:
There have been two reports from NISA to IAEA.

After TMI which was a single reactor as opposed to the 4 units significantly damaged in Japan. The President's commission report was issued in six months. The Rogovin Commission report took 9 months and the Report to the Pennsylvania Governor took 10 months.

I don't need to discuss the size of the pry bars that were needed to get information from Chernobyl.

Yeah. Nature of the beast. One of the lesser-known stories is that Gorbachev himself had to send some trusted KGB goons along with the first ministerial delegation to learn what was going on - and it took them nearly three days to report back that the plant had, in fact, exploded.
 
  • #335
"The Japanese did not become a world economic power through stupidity or laziness and it seems a little insulting for us to be arguing about whether they are being abused by their employers. "

But it is the country where Fukushima happened. Fukushima is as bad as it is because TEPCO was allowed to skirt regulations. It isn't a stretch for me to believe that TEPCO is taking advantage of the workers. In fact, haven't we heard a lot about the terrible facilities afforded these workers?
 
  • #336
desertlabs said:
"The Japanese did not become a world economic power through stupidity or laziness and it seems a little insulting for us to be arguing about whether they are being abused by their employers. "

But it is the country where Fukushima happened. Fukushima is as bad as it is because TEPCO was allowed to skirt regulations. It isn't a stretch for me to believe that TEPCO is taking advantage of the workers. In fact, haven't we heard a lot about the terrible facilities afforded these workers?

I did some reshearch on the labor/NDA's regulations in Japan over the last two days, it is not so cut and dry from what I could see. (hindered by the language barrier and not being able to equate payscale their to relative living cost..) this will take more time than I have at the moment. Also there seems to be some big differences in Culture, that is acceptable, that would not be elsewere in the world.

during the past post i had asked several questions to zapp... but did not get any responses that seem to provide informatioin that would allow one to make an informed descision. But I do see a lot of *inproper/mis-represtentations of the conditions and treatment.. I grant that they have been tough, but I can not say they are intentional vs the best Tepco was able to do at or during the period in question.

One thing that has struck me as strange is the areas of the plant being turned into work/rest areas, that were for the employees before the accident. such as all the athletic fields etc. (conditions must not have been to bad before) So are the conditions due to the stitutaion or lack of concern or both?

Regarding regulations.. I just printed NRC dock NO. 50-259 regarding the valve failure (saftey related) @ browns ferry nuclear plant in the US. I find it rather distrubing that a NPP was given the OK to go back into operation, after a extended outage with valves that were installed in 1968..."refurbished in june 2006, prior to Unit 1 restart... pasted its testing in march 2009, but then "based on casusal analysis information the failurer of the valve (1-FCV-074-066)" FAILED prior to november 2008? Plus the root cause ends up being a manufacture defect that exsisted since 1968? (have not seen maintc. records yet.. just looked up this info.)

But there seems to be some major "regulations" that should have identified this vavle before the time identified in October 23, 2010! How do you past a test then state the failure was before?? Apparently (and they admit it, as I understood it) the testing procedure has a problem??

So I suspect that Tepco is not the only NPP out there running on borrowed time.. I believe the infor above is correct but should be checked against the report if you are interested, as I may have a typo error that i don't see.

I am not sure why any NPP is running with safety system related valves over 40 years old in it? It will be interesting to see it the vavle manufacture gave it a "experation date". So nothing about any gov't/plant surprises me at this point. japan, US they all seem to be in need of review!

I do try and keep the hype out of it and some of the workers stories are being use to play on peoples emotions, not facts the little bit os info I had found so far does not support *all* the stories as they are quoted, I do agree if you need a 160 page manual to submit a 60 page applacation, the system needs revised quickly (this is for compensation, not workers)
 
  • #337
desertlabs said:
"The Japanese did not become a world economic power through stupidity or laziness and it seems a little insulting for us to be arguing about whether they are being abused by their employers. "

But it is the country where Fukushima happened. Fukushima is as bad as it is because TEPCO was allowed to skirt regulations. It isn't a stretch for me to believe that TEPCO is taking advantage of the workers. In fact, haven't we heard a lot about the terrible facilities afforded these workers?

Yes and I believe that that is both the fault of TEPCO and the Japanese regulatory organizatioons. But the bottom line is that the workers themselves have decided to work under the conditions offered. I have pointed out that despite non-disclosure agreements and non-litigation agreements, the Japanese government and regulators have to get out of the role as promoters and into the role as regulators. We can't do that for the Japanese. They have to make that happen. Japan is not a third world country. It has an exception primary and secondary education system and the population has the capability to understand what is going on. The internet makes information available even if you believe it is being suppressed internally. The daily updates from Tsutsuji belie that as a problem. The Japanese press have not gotten bored like many of the western media systems. They are publishing a huge amount of information and luch of it is critical of the TEPCO and government response.
 
  • #338
NUCENG said:
The Japanese did not become a world economic power through stupidity or laziness and it seems a little insulting for us to be arguing about whether they are being abused by their employers.

:smile:

The first part is very true. Under the Tokugawa shogunate ,Japanese industrial expansion was massive, and founded on industrial espionage ;forced labour and slavery. Which sort of undermines the point about employer abuse.
 
  • #339
Caniche said:
The first part is very true. Under the Tokugawa shogunate ,Japanese industrial expansion was massive, and founded on industrial espionage ;forced labour and slavery. Which sort of undermines the point about employer abuse.

Come on now, Caniche, that is just a bit over the top, isn't it? By that logic, what was once true must always be true, which is logically absurd. It denies any possibility of progress or change. I don't believe the Japanese recovery from the devastation of the Second World War would have been possible if the society was still based on the Shogunate form of feudalism. I will defer to the Japanese citizens participating in this thread. Is Japanese society today based on forced labor and slavery?
 
  • #340
http://sankei.jp.msn.com/science/news/111105/scn11110522030002-n1.htm The NISA is instructing 9 power plants to conduct earthquake and tsunami assessment again in the light of the knowledge learned from the 11 March earthquake and tsunami. This will further delay the restart of the concerned plants.

The NISA's decision is based on the fact that on 11 March several seismic sources were coupled together, tsunami waves accumulated and created a huge tsunami. As a result of arrival time differences between the waves that came from different sources off the Miyagi prefecture coast and off the Fukushima prefecture coast, although they are only 10 km away from each other, the tsunami height at both plants differed by 4 metre (13 m in Daiichi, 9 m in Daini). For example, the tsunami height expected at the Hamaoka plant from the coupling together of a Tokai tsunami and a Tonankai tsunami has been considered until now to be 6 or 7 metre, but according to the NISA, "An analysis taking into account larger scale earthquakes and wave accumulation resulting from time differences is necessary". This kind of coupled tsunami study is deemed necessary not only for the Hamaoka plant, but also for the Tomari (Hokkaido) and Higashidori (Aomori prefecture) plants.

Regarding the 5 nuclear plants in Fukui prefecture such as Ohi, the question of a large tsunami that could have happened 400 years ago is being raised as a result of the study of historical texts. In the Ando-Momoyama era, the Portuguese missionary Luis Frois wrote in his "History of Japan" : "There was an assault of a big wave like a high mountain, and houses, men and women were taken away. Everything was swallowed by the sea". Plant operators such as Kansai Electric are pressed to perform tsunami deposit surveys to check the existence or absence of historic tsunamis.

At Tokai Daini, fault assessment must be revised because crustal deformation took place in consequence of the earthquake and the characteristics of underground forces have changed.

At Higashidori and Tsuruga, the faults inside the plant premises that were until now not considered as being active, must be studied again.

15 among the 22 reactors concerned have already started the "stress tests" and the Ohi plant has already submitted the stress test results, but the new earthquake/tsunami safety instruction could mean the stress tests must be revised.

http://www.nikkei.com/news/category...19595E1E3E2E3988DE1E3E3E2E0E2E3E39F9FEAE2E2E2 The NISA's decision was announced on 31 November during a hearing of specialists. A historical text was found purporting that a huge tsunami stroke in Wakasa Bay as a result of the Tensho earthquake (1586).

http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/press/2011/11/en20111104-5-2.pdf "Regarding Resumption of Seismic Back Check Based on the Knowledge of the Off the Pacific Coast of Tohoku Earthquake"
 
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  • #341
An http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20111109f3.html" ) provided advice on how to decontaminate areas affected by nuclear fallout, such as in Fukushima, Tochigi and northern Chiba prefecture. Most of the advice is sound, but some is downright alarming:

As for trees, it's best to remove all their leaves because of the likelyhood they contain large amounts of cesium, Higaki [of University of Tokyo] said.
(...)
What should you do with the soil and leaves?
(...)
Leaves and weeds can be disposed of as burnable garbage, a Fukushima official said.

So let me get this right: you should collect all those leaves because they contain so much radioactive cesium (cesium 134 has a half life of 2 years and cesium 137 of 29 years). And then, when you have all that cesium in plastic garbage bags, you have it sent to the local garbage incinerator, so the carefully collected cesium gets spread over the whole neighbourhood again via the incinerator smokestack. That makes no sense at all.
 
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  • #342
joewein said:
An article in Japan Times (2011-11-09, "Scrub homes, denude trees to wash cesium fears away") provided advice on how to decontaminate areas affected by nuclear fallout, such as in Fukushima, Tochigi and northern Chiba prefecture. Most of the advice is sound, but some is downright alarming:
So let me get this right: you should collect all those leaves because they contain so much radioactive cesium (cesium 134 has a half life of 2 years and cesium 137 of 29 years). And then, when you have all that cesium in plastic garbage bags, you have it sent to the local garbage incinerator, so the carefully collected cesium gets spread over the whole neighbourhood again via the incinerator smokestack. That makes no sense at all.

Generally, emissions for burnable garbage in Japan are pretty strict, and they do not emit very much particulate smoke. This leads to the large amount of radioactive ash that has been collecting at disposal facilities.

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, but the overriding trend seems to be to strive to concentrate waste in limited areas.
 
  • #343
Shinjukusam said:
Generally, emissions for burnable garbage in Japan are pretty strict, and they do not emit very much particulate smoke. This leads to the large amount of radioactive ash that has been collecting at disposal facilities.

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, but the overriding trend seems to be to strive to concentrate waste in limited areas.

The objective, to concentrate the contamination, is laudable. However, the method may be counterproductive.
It is unlikely that the current emission controls would pick up cesium, which is quite volatile at exhaust stack temperatures.
 
  • #344
Nov. 14. Ohi NPP :
Consideration of the first formal application by a nuclear plant operator to restart a suspended reactor under the government’s new stress test system was postponed after experts challenged the safety of the procedure.
http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ201111150015
 
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  • #347
NUCENG said:
Come on now, Caniche, that is just a bit over the top, isn't it? By that logic, what was once true must always be true, which is logically absurd. It denies any possibility of progress or change. I don't believe the Japanese recovery from the devastation of the Second World War would have been possible if the society was still based on the Shogunate form of feudalism. I will defer to the Japanese citizens participating in this thread. Is Japanese society today based on forced labor and slavery?

Silly sausage, nothing is set in stone. You might wish to reconsider that strange response ;all you were given was historical fact.
 
  • #348
Caniche said:
Silly sausage, nothing is set in stone. You might wish to reconsider that strange response ;all you were given was historical fact.

I will reconsider, if you can explain what the "historical fact" has to do with current conditions in Japan.
 
  • #350
On March 12, a day after the tsunami, Yoshida ignored an order from Tepco headquarters to stop pumping seawater into a reactor to try and cool it. Tepco said it may penalize Yoshida even though Sakae Muto, then a vice president at the utility, said it was a technically appropriate decision. Yoshida received a verbal reprimand after then Prime Minister Naoto Kan defended the plant chief, the Yomiuri newspaper reported.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-30/leader-of-tepco-fukushima-fifty-steps-down.html

what is this i don't even
 
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  • #351
I could not find a Japanese version exactly similar to the English article. The closest Japanese article is http://www.bloomberg.co.jp/news/123-LVFBSX1A1I4H01.html published on the same day, by the same reporters. The word "sanction" is not used in http://www.bloomberg.co.jp/news/123-LVFBSX1A1I4H01.html . http://www.bloomberg.co.jp/news/123-LVFBSX1A1I4H01.html says 口頭で注意した (he was verbally warned).

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-30/leader-of-tepco-fukushima-fifty-steps-down.html mentions http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/atmoney/news/20110608-OYT1T01036.htm as it source, which talks about Tepco's president Shimizu summoning Yoshida to Tokyo on 6 June for a verbal warning for not having reported the facts for more than two months, but where 人事上の処分には当たらないとしている means "He said that this is not a basis for a disciplinary sanction".

In May, before Yoshida went to Tokyo, the Asahi said:

However, TEPCO officials are considering disciplinary action against Yoshida because he kept quiet about what actually happened for more than two months.

"It is difficult to understand why several days had to pass before revising the facts of a previous announcement," said Kenji Sumita, professor emeritus of nuclear engineering at Osaka University. "Repeated changes to announcements will affect the process of examining the accident. It would be natural to suspect the reliability of other records."
http://ajw.asahi.com/article/0311disaster/fukushima/AJ201105270252
 
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  • #352
I am a bit confused. If Yoshida was responsible for the deliberate decision to ignore scientific findings about the seismic and tsunami risk, then he should be held responsible. If however, he was the guy in charge on the worst day nucklear power ever saw, and he was trying everything he knew to combat the accident, is it reasonable to expect every decision to be correct? If they can demonstrate negligence, they should file that case. If all he did was withhold information from the people that were really to blame (TEPCO and the Japanese Regulators), I think he may end up as the hero along with the rest of the "Fukushima Fifty" in this story.

My problem is that we don't know enough to judge Yoshida, and we shouldn't. We do know that some people had knowledge of the risk and could have taken action to prevent or lesson the severity of this accident and they didn't. Why isn't that at the top of the page in every newspaper?
 
  • #353
NUCENG said:
My problem is that we don't know enough to judge Yoshida, and we shouldn't. We do know that some people had knowledge of the risk and could have taken action to prevent or lesson the severity of this accident and they didn't. Why isn't that at the top of the page in every newspaper?

Thank you for articulating my concerns. I was, for once, at a loss for words.
 
  • #354
Japan May Declare Control of Reactors, Over Serious Doubts
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/15/w...re-control-over-damaged-nuclear-reactors.html

NYTimes said:
“The government wants to reassure the people that everything is under control, and do this by the end of this year,” said Kazuhiko Kudo, a professor of nuclear engineering at Kyushu University. “But what I want to know is, are they really ready to say this?”

. . . .
“Claiming a cold shutdown does not have much meaning for damaged reactors like those at Fukushima Daiichi,” said Noboru Nakao, a nuclear engineering consultant . . . .

. . . .
 
  • #355
zapperzero said:
More on the jumpers. Article claims cumulative exposures are not tracked.
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/a...clear-gypsies-face-peril-at-power-plants?bn=1
Assuming that the article is acurate, it is disgraceful. In the US, such of practice of not accounting for exposure, and essentially falsifying records, would be illegal.

On the other hand, while working summer construction jobs during my university years, I watch similar practices with illegal aliens in Texas, but at non-nuclear sites. One of the nations largest construction companies brought truckloads of illegal aliens on-site, and if they were injured on the job, they were dismissed. They received no benefits, such as insurance, accumulated no social security, and earned less than the legal minimum wage.
 
  • #356
Astronuc said:
Assuming that the article is acurate, it is disgraceful. In the US, such of practice of not accounting for exposure, and essentially falsifying records, would be illegal.

On the other hand, while working summer construction jobs during my university years, I watch similar practices with illegal aliens in Texas, but at non-nuclear sites. One of the nations largest construction companies brought truckloads of illegal aliens on-site, and if they were injured on the job, they were dismissed. They received no benefits, such as insurance, accumulated no social security, and earned less than the legal minimum wage.

One immediate red flag about the article: TLD's are passive dosimeters for measuring cumulative doses. And electronic dosimeters I have used don't have on/off switches. If they were to be turned off and lost the initialization for the worker and his dose limits, they would alarm on exit.
 
  • #357
NUCENG said:
One immediate red flag about the article: TLD's are passive dosimeters for measuring cumulative doses. And electronic dosimeters I have used don't have on/off switches. If they were to be turned off and lost the initialization for the worker and his dose limits, they would alarm on exit.
That's a good and important point. I had read that to mean they just leave them behind or place them in their lunch box or in some situation where the dosimeters were not exposed.

Whenever I worked in a hot area, I check out a dosimeter and checked it back in after leaving the hot area. The cumulative doses were reported at the end of the year, IIRC.

No one was allowed in a hot area unless they were wearing a dosimeter.
 
  • #358
!

Astronuc said:
That's a good and important point. I had read that to mean they just leave them behind or place them in their lunch box or in some situation where the dosimeters were not exposed.

Whenever I worked in a hot area, I check out a dosimeter and checked it back in after leaving the hot area. The cumulative doses were reported at the end of the year, IIRC.

No one was allowed in a hot area unless they were wearing a dosimeter.

The more I reflect on this there are problems. First the discussion quotes a worker who only worked until the earthquake and tsunami. This may not be accurate for current practice due to all the flack TEPCO took over the lack of dosimetry right after the accident.

Second They quote a politician and a year-old study by a "watchdog" group. Wouldn't be a bad idea to question potential bias there!

Third, they quote the author of "The Lie of Nuclear Power." Obvioulsly an objective commentor (NOT).

They quote Kim Kearfott of the University of Michigan who does have good credentials, but only on how they recruit workers, not about training or use of dosimetry.

Finally they quote Kristin Shrader-Frechette of Notre Dame. She is a strident anti-nuclear critic as a part of her advocacy for "Environmental Justice."

All in all, I rate this article as about a 2 out of 10 for believability.
 
  • #360
I am looking to do a telephone interview for our radio newscasts (and web site) with a nuclear engineer about the Japanese prime minister's announcement (which will occur in a few hours) that Fukushima-1 has achieved "conditions" akin to a "cold shutdown." If anyone is available, please PM me.

-- Steve Herman
VOA Northeast Asia Bureau Chief
Twitter @w7voa
 

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