Fundamental frequencies of square wave and sine wave

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the fundamental frequencies of a 50 kHz square waveform with a 50% duty cycle and a 25 kHz sine waveform. Participants explore the mathematical representations and concepts related to these waveforms, including Fourier series and frequency components.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses uncertainty about which equations to use for calculating the fundamental frequencies and seeks hints for starting the problem.
  • Another participant notes that the fundamental frequency of a pure sine wave is simply its own frequency, suggesting that the 25 kHz sine wave can be easily identified.
  • Discussion includes the idea that a square wave can be analyzed by visualizing the largest sine wave that fits its shape, implying a relationship between the two waveforms.
  • A participant mentions using an FFT Oscilloscope to verify frequencies of various waveforms, indicating practical experience with the topic.
  • There is a question about how to determine the magnitude of the sine wave needed to approximate a square waveform, highlighting the complexity of relating the two forms mathematically.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the specific methods for calculating the fundamental frequencies, and multiple approaches are discussed without resolution.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference lecture notes and practical lab experiences, indicating that their understanding may depend on specific definitions and contexts not fully articulated in the discussion.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students studying waveforms, Fourier analysis, or those seeking to understand the relationship between different types of periodic signals in a practical or theoretical context.

galaxy_twirl
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Homework Statement



What are the fundamental frequencies for a 50 kHz square waveform of 50% duty cycle and a 25 kHz sinusoidal waveform, respectively? (The duty cycle of a square waveform is the ratio between the pulse duration and the pulse period.)

Homework Equations



2qv7di9.jpg

My teacher then gave an example to illustrate v(t) and cn. Hence, I have a feeling that I should use these formula to find the answer.
2lbdvk8.jpg

The Attempt at a Solution



I am at a loss of which equation to use because there are too many representations of v(t) and cn in my lecture notes. Nevertheless, I shall attempt o solve the above question.

For the square wave, with its frequency at 50kHz, which is f0, its period, 1/f0 is 2X10-5 seconds. I don't understand what does T stand for in the equation, but I assume it refres to the amount of time the signal was turned on. Since the signal is ON for half the time, T will be 1X10-5.

Hence, I will have
1zqav7d.png

Am I correct?

May I have some hints as to how to start the question for the part on sine wave?

Thank you everyone. :)
 
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The question asks for the fundamental frequencies of the given waveforms, one a square wave and the other a sine wave. You should be able to get to the answers without any math at all :)

The Fourier series represents a sum of frequency components, all of which are sinusoidal. In effect it breaks down a given periodic waveform into a series of sinusoidal frequency components.

A pure sine wave has only one component frequency, namely that of the sine wave itself. So you should be able to dispose of the 25 KHz sinewave easily enough.

The square wave can also be dealt with by inspection if you picture the largest sinewave that will fit its outline.
 
Hi gneill. Thank you for your help! :)

Ah I see. I determined the f0 in the lab by feeding in sinusoidal signals, square pulses and triangular waves into the FFT (Fast Fourier Transform) Oscilloscope and they all turned out to match the frequencies supplied by the signal generator regardless of the duty cycle. :)

gneill said:
The square wave can also be dealt with by inspection if you picture the largest sinewave that will fit its outline.

I know from my lecture notes that a sine wave can look like a square wave with squiggles when n becomes a larger number in sin(nx), as seen below:

3169gyb.jpg


Do you mean the above in your reply to my question on square wave? :) Just wondering, how do you know how large should the sine wave get into order to achieve a square waveform?

Thanks again! :D
 
galaxy_twirl said:
Do you mean the above in your reply to my question on square wave? :) Just wondering, how do you know how large should the sine wave get into order to achieve a square waveform?

I meant that by looking at a given square wave you should be able to see the period (or frequency) of the fundamental sine wave that fits its shape:
Fig1.gif

Determining the magnitude of that fundamental frequency for the Fourier series of the square wave is another matter :)
 
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Ah I see.

Thank you! :D
 

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