General relativity and accelerated frames

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SUMMARY

This discussion centers on the nuances of general relativity (GR) and accelerated frames, particularly the equivalence principle. Key insights include the concept that in small gravitational fields, free-falling particles behave as if in an inertial frame, allowing the application of special relativity (SR) principles. The conversation also highlights the distinction between non-inertial forces experienced in a rocket under acceleration versus those due to gravity on Earth, emphasizing that GR primarily addresses gravitational effects while SR encompasses accelerated frames. The participants conclude that while GR extends SR, it does not fundamentally alter the treatment of accelerated frames already present in SR.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of general relativity (GR) principles and the equivalence principle.
  • Familiarity with special relativity (SR) and its application to inertial and non-inertial frames.
  • Knowledge of differential geometry as it relates to physics.
  • Basic calculus, particularly integral calculus for modeling forces and work.
NEXT STEPS
  • Explore the concept of Rindler coordinates and their application in special relativity.
  • Study the implications of the equivalence principle in both gravitational and non-gravitational contexts.
  • Investigate the role of tidal forces in distinguishing between gravitational and non-gravitational accelerated frames.
  • Learn about the historical development of general relativity and its relationship with special relativity.
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for physicists, students of theoretical physics, and anyone interested in the foundational principles of general relativity and their implications for accelerated frames.

  • #61
RiccardoVen said:
it seems from here "even at a point" it's not possible to find such a chart. where am I wrong, please?

"flat at a point" is a statement about the metric tensor at that point, not the Riemann tensor.
I can find coordinates in which the components of the metric tensor at a point are diag(-1,1,1,1) but Riemann still won't vanish.
 
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  • #62
WannabeNewton said:
No this is incorrect. You cannot turn a curved metric into a flat one, ever, not even at a single event. Putting the metric into Minkowski form at a given event, and making the Christoffel symbols vanish there does not mean the metric is flat. The Riemann tensor will still be non-zero there. A handful of GR textbooks will use the terminology "locally flat coordinates" but this is a sacrilegious and downright incorrect term. The equivalence principle only says the gravitational field (= Christoffel symbols) will vanish at the chosen event and that the metric can be put into Minkowski form there. It does not say that the Riemann tensor (= tidal forces) will vanish because they certainly won't-they are a physical characterization of the curvature of space-time. The stipulation of neglecting tidal forces so as to apply the equivalence principle (i.e. the stipulation of a local inertial frame) simply means the Christoffel symbols vanish only at a single event as opposed to on an extended neighborhood of that event and the metric is only Minkowski at this single event. If we start moving away from this event and into an extended neighborhood of it then we will find non-zero terms in the Christoffel symbols and non-trivial terms in the metric that scale with the curvature (i.e. the tidal forces).

As for Gaussian normal coordinates, there is a slight distinction between coordinates and frames but for our purposes here yes a Gaussian normal system is the same thing as a freely falling frame (the local inertial frame has the added property that it is non-rotating which requires the notion of Fermi-Walker transport). One can find explicitly what the Riemann tensor is in this freely falling frame both at its origin (where the metric is Minkowski and the Christoffel symbols = gravitational field vanish) and near the origin up to second order in the characteristic curvature set by the Riemann tensor. See exercise 13.13 in MTW.

OK this clarifies a bit my doubt. It's really rally interesting the distinction you are making betweem gravity = Christoffel symbols and Riemann = tidal forces.
I've not read something like this in any book, and I think it's really clarifying things, at least a bit.
I've to work it out properly, since I think this view can really help me.

WannabeNewton said:
I can try to see if MTW has anything on that topic. Chapter 13 would be a good place to start.

OK, I will look at it as well.

WannabeNewton said:

Thanks for these one as well
 
  • #63
Nugatory said:
"flat at a point" is a statement about the metric tensor at that point, not the Riemann tensor.
I can find coordinates in which the components of the metric tensor at a point are diag(-1,1,1,1) but Riemann still won't vanish.

Yes that's exactly what WBN pointed out in the above post. This was leading confusion to me.
Not it's ok, thanks for your help.
 

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