Generating a vector space via a T-cyclic subspace

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence of a vector in a finite-dimensional vector space that can generate the entire space via a T-cyclic subspace, where T is a linear operator. Participants explore this concept through specific examples and generalizations, considering both trivial and complex cases.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether there exists a vector v in a finite-dimensional vector space V such that the T-cyclic subspace generated by v equals V, noting that this is not true for the zero transformation.
  • Another participant provides a specific example in a 2-dimensional space using the operator T represented by the matrix \begin{pmatrix} 0 & 1 \\ 1 & 0 \end{pmatrix} and the vector v = (1,0), arguing that v and Tv form a basis for the entire space.
  • A subsequent post reiterates the 2-dimensional example and seeks to generalize the findings for arbitrary linear maps.
  • A different participant discusses conditions under which the T-cyclic subspace has a specific dimension, suggesting that if T^m = T for some m, then the dimension of the T-cyclic subspace is limited to m, and introduces the concept of eigenvectors related to T.
  • This participant asserts that every n-dimensional vector space can have a linear operator that is cyclic of degree n, encouraging others to explore similar examples in higher dimensions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conditions necessary for a vector to generate the entire space via a T-cyclic subspace. While some examples are provided, there is no consensus on a general rule applicable to all linear operators.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their examples and reasoning, particularly regarding the dependence on the properties of the linear operator T and the specific dimensions of the vector space.

Bipolarity
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I've been thinking about a problem I made up. The solution may be trivial or very difficult as I have not given too much thought to it, but I can't think of an answer of the top of my head.

Let ## T:V → V ## be a linear operator on a finite-dimensional vector space ##V##. Does there exist a vector ## v \in V ## for which the T-cyclic subspace of ##V## generated by ##v## is ##V##? This is certainly not true in general, since if ##T## is the zero transformation and ##V## has dimension greater than 1 then no T-cyclic subspace will equal ##V##.

But what about for an arbitrary linear map?

BiP
 
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Let's just look at a 2-dim space. Let T = <br /> \begin{pmatrix}<br /> 0 &amp; 1 \\<br /> 1 &amp; 0\\<br /> <br /> \end{pmatrix}<br />
and v = (1,0). Then Tv = (0,1). Clearly v and Tv are a basis for the entire space.
 
brmath said:
Let's just look at a 2-dim space. Let T = <br /> \begin{pmatrix}<br /> 0 &amp; 1 \\<br /> 1 &amp; 0\\<br /> <br /> \end{pmatrix}<br />
and v = (1,0). Then Tv = (0,1). Clearly v and Tv are a basis for the entire space.

How can we generalize this for an arbitrary linear map?

BiP
 
Assuming we are in a finite dimensional vector space, of dimension n, you need to pick a T such that T^n= T but if 1 < m < n T^m \neq T.
If you do have T^m = T for 1 < m < n then the T-cyclic subspace has only dimension m, because that is all the independent vectors you can generate with powers of T.

Now there is bound to be some specific vector v such that T^mv = Tv even though T^m \neq T. That vector is in fact any eigenvector of T^m - T. You can't generate the entire space V using that kind of vector v. However, there is bound to be a vector u which is not an eigenvector of T^m - T for any 1 < m < n. You can use u to generate the entire space.

Does every n dimensional vector space have a linear operator which is cyclic of degree n? Yes. Start with my 2 dimensional example and see if you can find something similar in 3 dimensions. Once you get that far, you'll see how to generate such a T in n dimensions.
 

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