German Jazz quartet was playing

turbo

Gold Member
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Re: Jazz

I never said I was. I never said my friends were.



All your talk is cheap. Get a turn table. Make sounds come out of it. You cant. But I'm sure you can tell me stories till the cows come home about playing in bars, and all sorts of other Jazz related topics: all talk, no play.

If you think its sooooooooooooooooo easy, I want you to play something for me.

I bet your next post is another amazing story about meeting Louis Armstrong in a bar and jamming with him. (Although it proves nothing about your claim on the skills needed to DJ).
"skills needed to dj"? I can't help but laugh. Any other response would be purgative.
 
2,903
13
Re: Jazz

"skills needed to dj"? I can't help but laugh. Any other response would be purgative.
You're just mad you have to play in a tavern, while the DJs actually have an audience. :bugeye:

Again, when you've actually done some DJ'ing I'll respect your opinion. You just cant handle the fact that its something you can't do, so you trash it.

Saying something is easy when you've never tried it is ignorant. You know that saying, 'he makes it look easy'. Yeah, it looks easy....until you try it.
 

cristo

Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
8,056
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Re: Jazz

I could play marry had a little lamb quite easily. Same way I could just 'play' a record on a table. So............
I think this is the reason why turbo and others think how they do. It is, without a doubt, easier to play a record than it is to pick up a guitar, say, and play a song. Of course, DJs don't just play records, but I think this is something that you will only appreciate if you've actually listened to a DJ set, and not just the odd track here and there, or some DJ playing abba at a cousin's wedding. The latter is not what Cyrus is talking about here! DJs are definitely musicians in every sense of the word: (the good ones) make the music they play, they interact with the crowd, etc..
 
107
0
Re: Jazz

I think this is the reason why turbo and others think how they do. It is, without a doubt, easier to play a record than it is to pick up a guitar, say, and play a song. Of course, DJs don't just play records, but I think this is something that you will only appreciate if you've actually listened to a DJ set, and not just the odd track here and there, or some DJ playing abba at a cousin's wedding. The latter is not what Cyrus is talking about here! DJs are definitely musicians in every sense of the word: (the good ones) make the music they play, they interact with the crowd, etc..
A good DJ control is the heart and soul of a crowded club. Once plugged in, the DJ controls the club...call it a performance...but it's more like a traffic cop/surgeon/pit boss combo...if the DJ is good the club rocks...if not > NEXT!

Likewise, a band, whether they play original music or covers, develops it's own following. People follow the band from location to location. Obviously, different bands will attract different crowds...the club owners must decide what type of crowd they want and select the appropriate act. There is a big difference between being an accomplished musician and a live entertainer...sometimes a band requires a mixture of both.

The skill sets required to be either a top DJ or a musician in a band exceed the ability to operate the equipment efficiently...an ability to adapt, be creative and interact are also important.

My hat is off to both.
 

turbo

Gold Member
3,028
45
Re: Jazz

You're just mad you have to play in a tavern, while the DJs actually have an audience. :bugeye:

Again, when you've actually done some DJ'ing I'll respect your opinion. You just cant handle the fact that its something you can't do, so you trash it.

Saying something is easy when you've never tried it is ignorant. You know that saying, 'he makes it look easy'. Yeah, it looks easy....until you try it.
At the risk of beating a dead horse, choosing the sequence of other people's music and synching turntables and CD players and MP3 players is trivial. The "talent" involved in reading crowd response and choosing music on the fly is something that real musicians have to do every single day. If you don't keep butts on bar-stools and feet on the dance-floor you won't get hired back. The difference is that DJs don't ever have to learn how to sing or play and instrument. Sequencing live music is even more complicated when you're hosting open-mike jams because you have to accommodate the styles/talents of drop-in musicians. I got paid well to do that because the bar made a whole lot more money when I was there. It's not charity work.

When a band canceled on him, the owner of the local hotel/bar called on really short notice and asked me to put something together. I got some close friends together (who all play in bands, still) including my sister, who is the vocalist in a band too, and we showed up with NO rehearsal to play that gig. We kept the place packed and the owner had the best night ever (confirmed by the lead bartender). When he had cashed up and was paying us, he pleaded with us to leave our respective bands and stay together, saying he would make us his house band and let us use his place to store all our gear and rehearse. Of course, he could have hired a DJ....

Regarding "talent", in elementary school and HS, I played trumpet and baritone and added French horn in HS. I played in regional and all-state bands during that time. I also played bass guitar and electric guitar in bands for extra money during HS, and played frat parties and private parties to help pay my way through college. Later, I took up banjo, percussion and keyboards, though guitar remained my main-stay. After you have spent a few thousand hours mastering a real musical instrument, then come back and tell me how hard it is to be a DJ. It's nice that you respect the work that they do, but the "instant gratification" aspect of their work is pretty galling to someone who has spent a lifetime mastering an instrument. DJs are entertainers, not musicians.
 

cristo

Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
8,056
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Re: Jazz

When he had cashed up and was paying us, he pleaded with us to leave our respective bands and stay together, saying he would make us his house band and let us use his place to store all our gear and rehearse. Of course, he could have hired a DJ....
But like I said above, this isn't the type of DJ that Cyrus is thinking of. You're thinking of a wedding-type DJ; i.e. someone who plays similar music to the music you are talking about playing in a tavern. This is not a real DJ.. it is someone playing a few records. Under Cyrus' definition of a DJ, it is clear that such a person is a musician, who invests thousands of hours learning how to play his music.
 
2,903
13
Re: Jazz

At the risk of beating a dead horse, choosing the sequence of other people's music and synching turntables and CD players and MP3 players is trivial. The "talent" involved in reading crowd response and choosing music on the fly is something that real musicians have to do every single day. If you don't keep butts on bar-stools and feet on the dance-floor you won't get hired back. The difference is that DJs don't ever have to learn how to sing or play and instrument. Sequencing live music is even more complicated when you're hosting open-mike jams because you have to accommodate the styles/talents of drop-in musicians. I got paid well to do that because the bar made a whole lot more money when I was there. It's not charity work.

When a band canceled on him, the owner of the local hotel/bar called on really short notice and asked me to put something together. I got some close friends together (who all play in bands, still) including my sister, who is the vocalist in a band too, and we showed up with NO rehearsal to play that gig. We kept the place packed and the owner had the best night ever (confirmed by the lead bartender). When he had cashed up and was paying us, he pleaded with us to leave our respective bands and stay together, saying he would make us his house band and let us use his place to store all our gear and rehearse. Of course, he could have hired a DJ....

Regarding "talent", in elementary school and HS, I played trumpet and baritone and added French horn in HS. I played in regional and all-state bands during that time. I also played bass guitar and electric guitar in bands for extra money during HS, and played frat parties and private parties to help pay my way through college. Later, I took up banjo, percussion and keyboards, though guitar remained my main-stay. After you have spent a few thousand hours mastering a real musical instrument, then come back and tell me how hard it is to be a DJ. It's nice that you respect the work that they do, but the "instant gratification" aspect of their work is pretty galling to someone who has spent a lifetime mastering an instrument. DJs are entertainers, not musicians.

You are a lousy musician because you don't respect other people's work.
 

turbo

Gold Member
3,028
45
Re: Jazz

You are a lousy musician because you don't respect other people's work.
Personal insults are not a good way to settle an argument that you can't win.
 

BWV

445
358
Re: Jazz

In regards to the pig-ignorant statement of Jazz "requiring no talent", that view is not shared by any classical composer or performer I am aware of. Unless Cyrus thinks he is a better judge of talent than Stravinsky or Ravel or Debussy

Kind of Blue is the Led Zeppelin IV of Jazz

after that I would recommend for a beginner:

Louis Armstrong Plays WC Handy
TS Monk - Brilliant Corners
John Coltrane - Giant Steps
Miles Davis - In a Silent Way
Herbie Hancock - Head Hunters
Pat Metheny - Works
 
107
0
Re: Jazz

I have to go to Philadelphia later this week...can anyone recommend a nice Jazz club there?
 

turbo

Gold Member
3,028
45
Re: Jazz

I have to go to Philadelphia later this week...can anyone recommend a nice Jazz club there?
I Googled Philadelphia jazz clubs and got this page:

http://www.phillyjazz.org/clubs.html [Broken]

As the person who wrote the page warns, club-owners can sometimes change genres on very short notice, so you'd be well-advised to call some clubs and figure out who's playing where. Though I used to travel to Philly frequently on business, I haven't done so in years and have no idea if there is still a thriving jazz scene there. Sorry for the lack of specifics.
 
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turbo

Gold Member
3,028
45
Re: Jazz

In regards to the pig-ignorant statement of Jazz "requiring no talent", that view is not shared by any classical composer or performer I am aware of. Unless Cyrus thinks he is a better judge of talent than Stravinsky or Ravel or Debussy.
Anybody that thinks performing improvisational music requires no talent simply has no clue. I have had to hang it up due to chemical sensitivities (perfumes, etc) but played professionally at least part time for almost 40 years. The bands were fun, but the most fun (and the most demanding) was running open-mike jams. Musicians would show up with all kinds of songs they wanted to play and in various genres. It was billed as a weekly blues jam but it was certainly not uncommon for musicians to show up ready to play country, blues, rock, jazz, west-coast swing, etc. There's only one way to pull this off on guitar, and that is to become really proficient at barre chords and related scales so you can play in any key on demand.
 

BWV

445
358
Re: Jazz

Anybody that thinks performing improvisational music requires no talent simply has no clue.
Case in point, let your average conservatory student try to follow these changes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2kotK9FNEYU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param [Broken] name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2kotK9FNEYU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
 
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107
0
Re: Jazz

Case in point, let your average conservatory student try to follow these changes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2kotK9FNEYU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param [Broken] name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2kotK9FNEYU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
THANKS!!! I needed that!
 
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turbo

Gold Member
3,028
45
Re: Jazz

Case in point, let your average conservatory student try to follow these changes:
Imagine the fun that ensues when an advanced jazz student or instructor shows up with chops like that AND you have no chart to follow - just your ears. I'd just grin, shake my head, and give them the stage. There was a bass-player, guitarist, and tenor sax player that sometimes would show up together and they had some pretty hot material worked out. I'd put down my guitar and either sit it out for a mini-concert of jazz or sit in on drums.
 
2,903
13
Re: Jazz

Are you serious? Get your head outta your ***.
Obviously, my comment was tongue in check for turbo. Have you been reading my posts? Hint: I wasn't serious when saying that.
 
2,903
13
Re: Jazz

Personal insults are not a good way to settle an argument that you can't win.
Neither is you saying something is easy that you've never tried.
 
2,903
13
Re: Jazz

Would you like a drum solo turbo?


Go ahead, I'd like you to do that for me, since it's so easy.
 
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Re: Jazz

Just cause something is difficult doesn't mean its impressive:

case in point:
Although I suppose some may find that impressive, lol!
 
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2,903
13
Re: Jazz

Just cause something is difficult doesn't mean its impressive:

case in point:
Although I suppose some may find that impressive, lol!
I had to sit down in awe.

On a more serious note, Turbo thinks its easy. So easy in fact that 'he would be the best in the world if he tried'.

This kids pretty good:
 
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lisab

Staff Emeritus
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turbo

Gold Member
3,028
45
Re: Jazz

I had to sit down in awe.

On a more serious note, Turbo thinks its easy. So easy in fact that 'he would be the best in the world if he tried'.

This kids pretty good:
You painted yourself into a corner, Cy. Now you're trying to Lie yourself out of it. Bring up your best DJ friends and their gear and let me familiarize myself with their equipment. I'll let them play with all my guitars and amps. At the end of a week, who can perform on whose equipment and acquit themselves more skillfully? If you think your DJ buddies can out-perform a professional guitarist in 7 days, you are delusional. Please catch a clue.
 
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2,903
13
Re: Jazz

You painted yourself into a corner, Cy. Now you're trying to Lie yourself out of it. Bring up your best DJ friends and their gear and let me familiarize myself with their equipment. I'll let them play with all my guitars and amps. At the end of a week, who can perform on whose equipment and acquit themselves more skillfully? If you think your DJ buddies can out-perform a professional guitarist in 7 days, you are delusional. Please catch a clue.
What kind of nonsense is this, turbo. My 'best DJ friends', are not the best DJs in the world - and I never claimed they were. Your who can perform on whose equipment means jack squat. Unless YOU can perform BETTER than the best DJs in the world (as you claimed), you're talking out of your tooshey. You said, "I can play better than any of those DJs if I wanted to". The answer is NO YOU CANT. So instead of admitting it and respecting the work of fellow musicians, you cry oh they arent musicians. They just steal peoples music. How pathetic, turbo. Do you hear DJs saying, oh Jazz artists just bastardize classical music with all that random noise no one wants to hear. They work the classical artists out of a job! No, at least DJs show some respect. Why can't you do the same?

Your comments run along the lines of a guy who sees a painting in the museum that is modern art and complains that he could paint that if he wanted to also. The fact is, that guy does not have anything hanging in a museum, because he didnt and cant paint that same picture. Likewise, you cant play a turntable. What's worse, you have no conceptual understanding of what a DJ on a turntable can do. You think all DJs play like the one at your Tavern - they dont. The world is alot bigger than the DJs you've seen in your local tavern.


Also, no one said they (DJs) would outperform you in a local tavern playing with bubba Mc.grub who used to know a guy from the beatles and play with the local piano teacher that brought down mrs. johnsons third grade class for some bikes while eating hamburgers and beer and improvising with live open mics .........AHHHHHHHH gasp for breath.........and would get booed from the crowd and you have to earn your keep and there working us out of jobs, those bum DJS! (Have I missed anything?)

Now, can we do away with the nonsense analogies and stories?
 
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Re: Jazz

I listen to a lot of Jazz. My favorite stuff lies in the true early fusion era. Mahavishnu, Weather Report, RTF, Brand X and other bands. If your looking for more mellowed out Coltrane and Miles sound right. Mingus is really good too.
 

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