Going from phasor form to instantaneous time sinusoidal functions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conversion of phasor representations to instantaneous time sinusoidal functions, particularly in the context of electromagnetism. Participants are exploring the mathematical techniques involved in this transformation, including the use of Euler's formula and the implications of phase shifts.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Homework-related
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on the process of converting phasors to instantaneous time functions, specifically regarding the subtraction of phase angles in the solution manual.
  • Another participant explains that multiplying coefficients by √2 is necessary to convert to rms values, while noting that the negative sign in front of the voltage expression can be interpreted as a phase shift of 180 degrees.
  • It is suggested that subtracting π/2 from the exponent corresponds to a 90-degree phase shift, and that multiplying by j adds or subtracts π from the exponent.
  • A participant proposes that adding ±π should yield the same result, questioning if this is valid in the context of the phase shift adjustments discussed.
  • Another participant confirms the validity of the proposed transformation but emphasizes that convention dictates not exceeding π/2 in magnitude for phase expressions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the handling of negative signs in phasor expressions and the conventions for expressing phase shifts. There is no consensus on the best approach to these transformations, and multiple interpretations of the phase adjustments remain.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential for misunderstanding the implications of phase shifts and the conventions used in expressing phasor forms. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps involved in the transformations.

Lolsauce
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So I'm currently reviewing for my electromagnetism class, but I do not remember the techniques from going to phasor to instantaneous time. Maybe someone can explain to me what is going on.

Homework Statement



Find the instantaneous time sinusoidal functions corresponding to the following phasors:My question is specifically on Part A and Part B

Homework Equations



Relevant equations includes Eulers:

c9f2055dadfb49853eff822a453d9ceb.png


Which let you go from polar to rectangular.

The Attempt at a Solution



For Part A, we are given V~ = -5exp(j*pi/3)

I just went straight from phasor to instantaneous time:

V~ = v(t) -> -5exp(j*pi/3) = Re{V~ * exp(jwt) = -5exp(jwt + pi/3)

But for some strange reason, in the solution manual they subtract pi from the exponential to remove the negative sign. I'm not exactly sure why they do this. It is the same for Part B, why do they subtract pi/2. Can anyone explain this to me? I've also attached the solution to part A and B below.
 
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First, you need to multiply all your coefficients (voltages and currents) by √2. The transformed voltages and currents represent rms values. The time-domain ones obviously represent peak voltages.

OK, now realize that -1 = +1*exp(jπ) = +1*exp(-jπ). You don't want a negative sign in front of your time-domain voltage expression, it's meaningless. What counts is phase. -1V = +1V shifted 180 degrees.

Use Euler to convince yourself that -1 = exp(jπ) = exp(-jπ). Also that j = exp(jπ/2).

Subtracting π/2 from the exponent is subtracting 90 degrees from the phase shift. Multiplying any transformed voltage by j is equivalent to adding (or subtracting) π from the exponent. So you need to subtract π/2, then add π, to figure out part b.
 
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rude man said:
First, you need to multiply all your coefficients (voltages and currents) by √2. The transformed voltages and currents represent rms values. The time-domain ones obviously represent peak voltages.

OK, now realize that -1 = +1*exp(jπ) = +1*exp(-jπ). You don't want a negative sign in front of your time-domain voltage expression, it's meaningless. What counts is phase. -1V = +1V shifted 180 degrees.

Use Euler to convince yourself that -1 = exp(jπ) = exp(-jπ). Also that j = exp(jπ/2).

Subtracting π/2 from the exponent is subtracting 90 degrees from the phase shift. Multiplying any transformed voltage by j is equivalent to adding (or subtracting) π from the exponent. So you need to subtract π/2, then add π, to figure out part b.

Thanks for the reply, so you are saying that the the subtraction of the ∏ phase in part is to get rid of the negative. Meaning if I add ±∏, I should get the same answer since it shifts the negative to positive phase either way. That means:

5exp(j(4∏/3 + wt)) should also be correct? Yes?
 
Yes, but convention is to never exceed pi/2 in magnitude.

So exp(-2pi/3) is more conventionally expressed as exp(pi/3) etc.
 

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