Gradient of a time-dependent potential energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the gradient of a time-dependent potential energy function, specifically in the context of a magnetic field that varies with time. Participants explore the implications of this gradient in relation to state and input variables, as well as the appropriate mathematical treatment in different coordinate systems.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a specific form for the gradient of potential energy, questioning whether a second term should be included due to the time-dependence of the magnetic field.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about whether the potential energy is solely a function of the angle theta or if the magnetic field H also varies with position.
  • A different participant clarifies that theta is a state variable while H is an input variable, suggesting that potential energy is typically a function of state variables in a closed system.
  • This participant also notes that external modifications to the potential landscape can couple with the system's dynamics, potentially introducing non-conservative fields and torques.
  • Another participant requests a clearer description of the system and inquires about the use of polar coordinates for the gradient operator.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the potential energy function and the role of the magnetic field, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without consensus.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of the problem, with participants noting that providing a straightforward solution may not be feasible. There are also references to the need for careful consideration of coordinate systems when applying the gradient operator.

kuntalroy
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Say, we have potential energy of the form [itex]U = cos (\theta(t)) H(t)[/itex].

H denotes a magnetic field that is time-dependent and it's an input variable to the system. Now when you take gradient of potential energy, would you write

[itex]\nabla U = \left[ - sin (\theta(t)) H(t) + cos (\theta(t)) \frac{\partial H(t)}{\partial \theta(t)}\right] \hat{e}_{\theta} = \left[ - sin (\theta(t)) H(t) + cos (\theta(t)) \frac{dH(t)/dt}{d\theta(t)/dt}\right] \hat{e}_{\theta}[/itex] ?

Should the 2nd term be present?
 
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this doesn't totally make sense to me - is the potential only a function of theta or does H vary with position?

also if you want to take the gradient in cylindrical or spherical coords, you have to account for the basis vectors changing, and so use the form of the gradinet operator in those coordinates
 
Well, theta is a state variable while H is a input variable. Usually, the potential energy U is a function of only the state variables - (r,theta,phi) - in spherical coordinate system - for the simplified case it's only a function of theta. It's valid for only a 'closed' system.

If some external agent modifies the potential landscape and does an energy exchange in time, it gets coupled with the dynamics of the system - here it's theta. This can be produce an additional non-conservative field and subsequently a torque. This may have a self-consistent nature with the dynamics of the system.

This is not a straigtforward problem - first we have catch the problem - and providing a solution would not be straigtforward at all.
 

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