Grasping the realm(s) of ETERNITY

[dgoodpasture2005]

At one point there was no time, because the dimensions of time and space did not exist in its present form. So in essence eternity does not need to be attatched to time. Time, the conceptions and self convictions of what is perceived as reality, most often are placed in a jar and shook up, causing them to become one and the same in the minds of the misinformed, unenlightend, and non imaginable.

what do you think? before responding.. please note, that to me, eternity is not time, and eternity is not reality... because at one point there couldn't have been time (according even to the big bang and creation theories) is this eternity? even when there is nothing... there is something... so to speak.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Human perception of the passage of time is the product of one or several parts of the brain whose function it is to give us a sense of time. We know this because in some people it doesn't work. People with the lack of an elastin gene, for example suffer a neurological syndrome, called William's Syndrome, which prevents them from forming any good idea of the passage of time. They can't tell an hour from ten minutes, and have no general "feel" for any given amount of time.

Additionally, there are some people with a certain kind of simple-partial seizure who percieve the world around them as zipping past at many times the normal rate as if it were a speeded up movie. The street drug "speed", someone once told me, was so named because it produced this same illusion sometimes.

It's obvious from this that there is at least one, but maybe several, parts of the brain whose job it is to keep our perception of the passage of time within certain tolerances.

There is nothing objective that can be derived from our perception of the passage of time about time itself. We don't know the true interplay between our perception of it, and whatever may be objectively real about it. Observing the increase of entropy tells us nothing about any objective rate at which it may be proceeding, if such a rate exists.

A person's brain, supercharged somehow, might shift into a gear where its "rate of perception" so to speak, becomes so much faster than normal for humans, that it would percieve the world to be standing still, frozen in time, while it, itself, seemed to be moving forward normally.

In this fashion, by this mechanism, a second could last an eternity.

I have heard claims that some eastern monks can achieve just such a state of acceleration, I have heard it also attributed to some hallucinogenic plants, and possibly some neurological conditions.

---

That said, eternity by definition requires that there be time. If time didn't exist before the big bang, there was also no eternity back then.

 

[dgoodpasture2005]

"That said, eternity by definition requires that there be time. If time didn't exist before the big bang, there was also no eternity back then."

first off, thank you so much, that was very nicely worded and xtremely informal.


but this is what i am asking you not to do, do not associate time and perceptions of reality with eternity... our perception of reality/time are limited are only even experienced because we exist in th current dimensions of the universe. it can be done, and it then makes sense... eternity becomes much clearer an idea. The hardest thing to accept about eternity is its beginning... which does not exist. The idea of eternity must be detatched from the dimensions of the universe as we know it for one to fully grasp it's concption. It's truly quite a beautiful thing to accept and ponder once you can achieve this thought. Eternity... the existence of absolutely nothing on a quantum level. I had this thought last night... what if, hypothetically, one was able so sit around until the supposed time of the "big crunch" would it be possible for him/her to watch from outside the bubble of the collapsing universe to watch what happens? If not... then what would happen if one tried to leave the wall of the "collapsing bubble of th universe" as it crunched in on itself, is this not possible? you would be leaving todays known "universe" if you tried to do this... what would you see upon trying to exit? if all the matter in the universe is beeing crunched into the siz of a pinhead, this would lead me to believe that indeed... not even "space" would escape.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It seems that this is really more a philosophical issue.

 

[zoobyshoe]

It seems that this is really more a philosophical issue.

I tried.


...

 

[dgoodpasture2005]

i'm sorry if i was not clear enough... but what i was saying is... eternity is true, if you let yourself believe it. If you were outside of the universe watching the big bang before it happened, or the big crunch as it happened... imagine the universe as a bubble or a pinhead...and you are watching from "outside" of that collapsing/expanding bubble of space. then would you not be surrounded in complete nothingness... which consists of no running time and no space but... but is eternity? or does nothing exist outside of the universe? I'm sorry my imagination runs wild, and it is difficult at times for me to explain my mind in full radiance and intents. Many strange things come to me as i sit and watch t.v., read, or dream... I'm not sure why... but they all seem to prove true.

 

[XxFREEofFILTHxX]

Eternity Did Not Take Place Before Or After Anything
(big Bang)...eternity Over Exists...it Cannot Be Placed Before Or After Anything...because It Will Be Subject To A Place In Time And Confined To It, Thus Limiting Eternity.

 

[dgoodpasture2005]

yes very brilliant... this is precisely what i was trying to get across... even before the big bang, and outside of the "universe", or space... even in complete nothingness... there is eternity. eternity is not confined to time or/and humans perspectives of reality. It is and ALWAYS exists... one cannot change what eternity is(forever, omnipresent)... he can only define it in his own words... as best as humanly possible, so that others may gain more knowledge for themselves. I only wish to make people smarter by conversing, and understand the things that i think of... which sometimes... at best... extremely extremely HARD.

 

[XxFREEofFILTHxX]

Not Extremely Hard...impossible.

 

[dgoodpasture2005]

NO THING is impossible... even when there is nothing... there is eternity. eternity may just be an illusion of the mind, only because we can imagine that even after we die, every move that we made and every word that we spoke made it's cosmic imprint on the book of the universe... and even after we're gone, and the universe is gone(if it should ever be gone), these things still came to past. no thing is impossible... it just takes hard work, lot's of thinking, a couple beers, a clear dark night where the stars are clearly visible, some mental gymnastics, a pen, a notebook, and a great imagination. Soon, i will have a meaning for eternity that is easy for all to understand.

 

[XxFREEofFILTHxX]

No Man You Are Sorry To Say Crazy...we Have A Thing Called Free Will...if Someone Doesnt Want To Believe Something They Wont...the Human Being Is The Hardest Thing To Change...they Are Stuborn, Resistant, And Will Believe What They Want No Matter How Much Truth Or Fact Is Provided...as Much As You Want For Someone To Understand Something Their Capacity For Reasoning Or Intellegence Will Not Handle It...as For Having The Meaning For Eternity...it Hasn't Been Done By The Greatest Philosopher...and Wont Be Done By You...leave It At That...you Are Not Something Speacial...eternity Is Beyond You And Me...you Canot Understand The Infinite With A Finite Mind...sorry Bro...but If You Dont Believe This...you Are Going To Continue Wasting Your Time With Meaning Beyond Your Understanding And Prove My Point Further With Being Stuborn And Resistant With The Cold Dead Truth..

With This Said You Must Understand That Eternity Gives You Existence...it Defines You...not You It

 

[dgoodpasture2005]

No Man You Are Sorry To Say Crazy...we Have A Thing Called Free Will...if Someone Doesnt Want To Believe Something They Wont...the Human Being Is The Hardest Thing To Change...they Are Stuborn, Resistant, And Will Believe What They Want No Matter How Much Truth Or Fact Is Provided...as Much As You Want For Someone To Understand Something Their Capacity For Reasoning Or Intellegence Will Not Handle It...as For Having The Meaning For Eternity...it Hasn't Been Done By The Greatest Philosopher...and Wont Be Done By You...leave It At That...you Are Not Something Speacial...eternity Is Beyond You And Me...you Canot Understand The Infinite With A Finite Mind...sorry Bro...but If You Dont Believe This...you Are Going To Continue Wasting Your Time With Meaning Beyond Your Understanding And Prove My Point Further With Being Stuborn And Resistant With The Cold Dead Truth..

With This Said You Must Understand That Eternity Gives You Existence...it Defines You...not You It

i'm sorry you feel this way... i hope you are great at everything you do in life though...i love doubters though... they fuel my fire... and 30 years from now when i am 50 years old and i have made the next great discoveries... i will look back at all of this, and get the last laughs :rofl: thank you for your enthusiasm and positivity... i see humans are also extremely arrogant and mean :P ha j/k

 

[XxFREEofFILTHxX]

If Nothing Is Impossible ...make Me Understand...make A Rock...fly...if You Can't Trying Harder Should Be The Solution Is What You Are Telling Me...right...?

 

[dgoodpasture2005]

if eternity defines you... you may also define it... if it is at work as you say it is, in defining every single one of us, then we may also define it. use your imagination... the answers lay dorment in your brain.

 

[XxFREEofFILTHxX]

Or Maybee I Should Drink A Beer And I Could Do These Impossible Things...hahahahaha

 

[XxFREEofFILTHxX]

You Cant Even Define Yourself Dummy

 

[dgoodpasture2005]

If Nothing Is Impossible ...make Me Understand...make A Rock...fly...if You Can't Trying Harder Should Be The Solution Is What You Are Telling Me...right...?

rocks can fly... ever heard of ionized wind? the searls effect? the hutchinson effect?... such things are not impossible... and it is great thinkers... or as you would refer to them... "crazies"... that give us all better insight to ourselves and the universe around us... i believe Einstein was referred to as crazy many times... but he never quit. good for him. i don't call it my stubborness to not quit... i call it my will to fight for answers.

 

[dgoodpasture2005]

You Cant Even Define Yourself Dummy

if it is name calling you wish to stoop down to... the zoo has some openings... be on your way, i will not discuss with you any longer since you cannot carry a conversation without being angry and controlling your fragile emotions.

 

[XxFREEofFILTHxX]

I WILL SAY IT AGAIN ...

If Nothing Is Impossible ...make Me Understand...make A Rock...fly...if You Can't Trying Harder Should Be The Solution Is What You Are Telling Me...right...?
AND IF YOU CANNOT DRINK A BEER...RIGHT...?

WELL IF ETERNITY DEFINES YOU AND YOU IT...WHY THE HELL ARE YOU SERCHING FOR THE MEANING OF ETERNITY...

 

[XxFREEofFILTHxX]

Hahahahah...im Telling You To Fly...or Make A Rock...hahahahaha

 

[XxFREEofFILTHxX]

Not Make A Rock Fly

 

[XxFREEofFILTHxX]

Hahahahahah I am So Right...you Are Completely Crazy...i Mean...one Who Fights For Answers.

 

[Canute]

In Christian mysticism eternity is the presence of all time at once. Most other mystics say about the same. Briane Greene writes this:

"… the intuitive sense of time’s flow can be vividly portrayed in this framework by a variation on the movie-projector metaphor. We can envision a light that illuminates one time slice after another, momentarily making the slice come alive in the present - making it the momentary now - only to let it go instantly dark again as the light moves on to the next slice. Right now, in this intuitive way of thinking about time, the light is illuminating the slice in which you, sitting on planet earth, are reading this word. But, again, while this image seems to match experience, scientists have been unable to find anything in the laws of physics that embodies such a moving light. They have found no physical mechanism that singles out moment after moment to be momentarily real - to be the momentary now - as the mechanism flows ever onward towards the future.
Quite the contrary. (…) there is convincing evidence that the spacetime loaf -the totality of spacetime, not slice by single slice - is real. A less than widely appreciated implication of Einstein’s work is that special relativistic reality treats all times equally. Although the notion of now plays a central role in our worldview, relativity subverts our intuition once again and declares ours an egalitarian universe in which every moment is as real as any other. (…) we argue that every part of the spacetime loaf (…) is as real as every other, suggesting, as Einstein believed, that reality embraces past, present and future equally and that the flow we envision bringing one section to light as another goes dark is illusory.

… Just as we envision all of space as really being out there, as really existing, we should also envision all of time as really being out there, as really existing too. Past, present and future certainly appear to be distinct entities. But, as Einstein once said, "For we convinced physicists, the distinction between past, present and future is only an illusion, however persistent."

Brian Greene
The Fabric of the Cosmos
Penguin, 2003 (132/139)

It seems that there is one perspective from which all time exists at once, and many perspectives from which it does not. Philosopher Colin Mcginn speculates that consciousness originates outside time. Perhaps it does, for everybody speaks of the stillness of ultimate reality, and what could eternity be but unchanging stillness, perhaps even the peace that passeth all understanding?

 

[sd01g]

. Philosopher Colin Mcginn speculates that consciousness originates outside time. Perhaps it does, for everybody speaks of the stillness of ultimate reality, and what could eternity be but unchanging stillness, perhaps even the peace that passeth all understanding?

No one has ever observed or experienced anything that exists outside TIME and/or SPACE. 'Exist' has meaning, 'outside' has meaning, 'time' has meaning, and 'space' has meaning. Unfortunately, when put together in the phrase 'outside time and/or space', they become completely meaningless.

Even if one is experiencing a real illusion, it happens in real time and space.

 

[Canute]

Do you suppose that all the physicists and philosophers who think that time and space are not fundamental have overlooked these facts? I think not. Things are not as simple as you suggest.

 

[giorbran]

Learning to See Timelessness
http://everythingforever.com