Grass Death Under Power Lines: EMF's a Factor?

[FlimFlam]

So I was messing with the induction from power lines and fluorescent bulbs, and I noticed all the plants under the power lines were dead but plants around it were fine. Do EMF's have something to do with this?

 

[russ_watters]

So I was messing with the induction from power lines and fluorescent bulbs, and I noticed all the plants under the power lines were dead but plants around it were fine. Do EMF's have something to do with this?

No. More likely the power company applied a herbicide to keep the area clear of vegetation. Otherwise, why would there even be dead plants there?

 

[jbriggs444]

So I was messing with the induction from power lines and fluorescent bulbs, and I noticed all the plants under the power lines were dead but plants around it were fine. Do EMF's have something to do with this?

I would suspect herbicide application. One wants to be able to get into the power line right-of-way and might be discouraging vegetation. [And might have chosen the wrong herbicide]

 

[FlimFlam]

No. More likely the power company applied a herbicide to keep the area clear of vegetation. Otherwise, why would there even be dead plants there?

How long would that work though? Power company hasn't been trough this area in at least 8 years and still nothing appears to grow.

 

[FlimFlam]

I would suspect herbicide application. One wants to be able to get into the power line right-of-way and might be discouraging vegetation. [And might have chosen the wrong herbicide]

But how long would the herbicide be useful for out in the sunlight and with weather? Power company or really any company haven't passed trough this area in at least 8 years and there's still nothing growing.

 

[berkeman]

But how long would the herbicide be useful for out in the sunlight and with weather? Power company or really any company haven't passed trough this area in at least 8 years and there's still nothing growing.

Can you post a picture? It could be that the plants around the right-of-way don't do a lot of regeneration...

So I was messing with the induction from power lines and fluorescent bulbs,

And keep in mind that the power company may not like the idea of you tapping into their power distribution grid (even just through inductive coupling). They like to charge for that power, after all...

http://152.87.4.98/power/rightofway/images/anatomy-1_DSC9583.jpg

 

[FlimFlam]

Can you post a picture? It could be that the plants around the right-of-way don't do a lot of regeneration...

And keep in mind that the power company may not like the idea of you tapping into their power distribution grid (even just through inductive coupling). They like to charge for that power, after all...

Ill get some pictures when I arrive home. I am not leeching power,just pointed a CFL bulb at the power lines. I could post the magnetic field data I took if you're interested.

 

[anorlunda]

But how long would the herbicide be useful for out in the sunlight and with weather? Power company or really any company haven't passed trough this area in at least 8 years and there's still nothing growing.

They inspect it more often and decide when to do something based on how big the plants grow.

Tree branches falling on power lines cause more outages than any other cause other than squirrels.

 

[russ_watters]

How long would that work though? Power company hasn't been trough this area in at least 8 years and still nothing appears to grow.

You said there are plants there, but they are dead. Based on the size of the dead plants you might be able to speculate on frequency or longevity of application.

I suspect the power company is responsible for keeping ther area clear and doesn't want to be mowing once a month.

A road near me installed wire guard rails on the median a few years ago and immediately after installation, the grass underneath died. Makes it easier to mow the median.

 

[FlimFlam]

You said there are plants there, but they are dead. Based on the size of the dead plants you might be able to speculate on frequency or longevity of application.

I suspect the power company is responsible for keeping ther area clear and doesn't want to be mowing once a month.

A road near me installed wire guard rails on the median a few years ago and immediately after installation, the grass underneath died. Makes it easier to mow the median.

well half of the vegetation is like a foot high but bent over and he other half is dead grass about an inch high

 

[russ_watters]

FYI, Google has a lot to say about "herbicide under power lines"...

 

[russ_watters]

Here's the road I was referring to. You can see there is a narrow strip of deadness under the guard wire, but also that they still didn't mow close enough to it:
https://binged.it/2EwgkS0

 

[Nik_2213]

On a local 'power pole' scale rather than 'regional grid', you may get a different mix of plants and growth along 'trace' if the wires are popular perches for birds...

 

[Asymptotic]

They inspect it more often and decide when to do something based on how big the plants grow.

Tree branches falling on power lines cause more outages than any other cause other than squirrels.

A gray squirrel (RIP) draped itself between case and high tension bushing a while back, and took out my "pole pig" distribution transformer primary fuse. The lineman added a "squirrel insulator" during fuse replacement to prevent a repeat, and while I don't know what the distribution voltage is (suspect 7200V; it's on an old stretch in a rural area) your observation has me wondering ... are they ever implicated in taking out higher voltage distributions (69 kV, 225 kV, 345 kV, etc), or do the squirrels clear before protective relaying kicks in?

 

[epenguin]

The median?? Mow the median? ,
Like in the song?

 

[tech99]

I have noticed plants bending away from transmitting antennas.

 

[anorlunda]

I have noticed plants bending away from transmitting antennas.

How dare they bend that way.

(Just kidding)

 

[FlimFlam]

So I was messing with the induction from power lines and fluorescent bulbs, and I noticed all the plants under the power lines were dead but plants around it were fine. Do EMF's have something to do with this?

Made a graph of EMF based on distance from power lines.

 

[russ_watters]

I have noticed plants bending away from transmitting antennas.

We're they south of the power lines? Bent with the wind?

 

[anorlunda]

Made a graph of EMF based on distance from power lines. View attachment 220420

I can't read the units on your graph.

Sounds fun. With a search you might find published data on power lines to compare with yours.

 

[FlimFlam]

I can't read the units on your graph.

Sounds fun. With a search you might find published data on power lines to compare with yours.

Just noticed excel messed up the units. Ignore Y axis, Z axis is displacement from the power-line in feet, X axis is magnetism measured in MicroTesla.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Made a graph of EMF based on distance from power lines. View attachment 220420

I can see no scale units on that graph so it means nothing to me, I'm afraid. Are these lines High voltage or for domestic distribution?
There are Power Lines all over the country and I have never noticed strips of different colour / density on fields used for either crops or animal grazing.
For decades, there have been claims that power lines have an effect on the health of people living near or below them. (Spend a few minutes on Google Earth)
Of course, it is not in the interest of Power companies to accept there is a case against them so there is always the possibility that the 'facts' have been suppressed. Personally, I would believe that there may be some correlation between power lines and health - but there is also a strong negative correlation between routing of power lines and the income (aka influence) of people near them. Overall, that could imply a causal relationship between income and health but nothing else.

 

[FlimFlam]

I can see no scale units on that graph so it means nothing to me, I'm afraid. Are these lines High voltage or for domestic distribution?
There are Power Lines all over the country and I have never noticed strips of different colour / density on fields used for either crops or animal grazing.
For decades, there have been claims that power lines have an effect on the health of people living near or below them. (Spend a few minutes on Google Earth)
Of course, it is not in the interest of Power companies to accept there is a case against them so there is always the possibility that the 'facts' have been suppressed. Personally, I would believe that there may be some correlation between power lines and health - but there is also a strong negative correlation between routing of power lines and the income (aka influence) of people near them. Overall, that could imply a causal relationship between income and health but nothing else.

Sorry not the best at making graphs as you can see. Speaking of, I actually wanted to go to all the houses next to the power lines and and the residents questions about their health based on how many years they have lived there.

 

[berkeman]

Sorry not the best at making graphs as you can see. Speaking of, I actually wanted to go to all the houses next to the power lines and and the residents questions about their health based on how many years they have lived there.

Is this for a school project or something?

 

[FlimFlam]

Is this for a school project or something?

Nope, personal interest

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[RonL]

Sorry not the best at making graphs as you can see. Speaking of, I actually wanted to go to all the houses next to the power lines and and the residents questions about their health based on how many years they have lived there.

I would suggest you check with local law enforcement and learn your legal rights before undertaking that project

 

[FlimFlam]

I would suggest you check with local law enforcement and learn your legal rights before undertaking that project

What legal trouble could there be? Everything would be optional.

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[russ_watters]

Speaking of, I actually wanted to go to all the houses next to the power lines and and the residents questions about their health based on how many years they have lived there.

This disturbs me, but before I get into that, have you done any research on this? There is a lot of information out there...both good and bad...

 

[FlimFlam]

This disturbs me, but before I get into that, have you done any research on this? There is a lot of information out there...both good and bad...

Yes that's why I'm interested in asking long term residents about health effects

 

[RonL]

What legal trouble could there be? Everything would be optional.

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Some communities like the one I live in have ordinances in place that restrict door to door solicitation, so just be careful.

As for your topic, I have had a commercial property for more than 30 years that has six (144,000 Volts) overhead power lines 51' above the ground at the lowest point of the span, having worked many long hours around and under them there is absolutely no related health problems that I'm am aware of and for sure no trees and vegetation that has been retarded in any manner. The power companies do contract with right of ways clearing crews every few years.

That can be a touchy subject, so be careful and have fun.

 

[russ_watters]

Yes that's why I'm interested in asking long term residents about health effects

To be frank, if you've done quality research you should know that isn't a useful thing to do.

 

[sophiecentaur]

To be frank, if you've done quality research you should know that isn't a useful thing to do.

Agreed. If you want to get results that are going to be taken notice of, you will need thousands of results and multivariable analysis of the data. Some casual interviews with a limited set of subjects will not yield useful results.
OTOH, it is relatively easy to look at thousands of images of crops and to correlate them with the routes of power lines.

 

[FlimFlam]

Agreed. If you want to get results that are going to be taken notice of, you will need thousands of results and multivariable analysis of the data. Some casual interviews with a limited set of subjects will not yield useful results.
OTOH, it is relatively easy to look at thousands of images of crops and to correlate them with the routes of power lines.

Alright, I can probably follow power lines for 20 miles in my car and constantly record then compare the results later.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Alright, I can probably follow power lines for 20 miles in my car and constantly record then compare the results later.

How would you "record" them?
I think we can be pretty sure that the effects will not be immediately visible; I can't remember every having been aware of it. However, numerical logging of the Colour of the crops near the lines could give actual data which could be related to the positions of the lines. This is why I reckon google images could help you - if the resolution is good enough. But home sourced (drone?) videos could give plenty of data in a short time.

 

[tech99]

We're they south of the power lines? Bent with the wind?

These plants were a few inches away from antenna wires which would be used just occasionally and would have a few kV on them. It was a sheltered location and the plants just grew in contorted ways, seemingly to get away from the hazard.

 

[FlimFlam]

How would you "record" them?
I think we can be pretty sure that the effects will not be immediately visible; I can't remember every having been aware of it. However, numerical logging of the Colour of the crops near the lines could give actual data which could be related to the positions of the lines. This is why I reckon google images could help you - if the resolution is good enough. But home sourced (drone?) videos could give plenty of data in a short time.

Well I was thinking taking burst photos and using something like OpenCV to analyze color.

 

[jbriggs444]

Alright, I can probably follow power lines for 20 miles in my car and constantly record then compare the results later.

But what will that tell you? It will not tell you why the foliage under the lines is as it is if you do not control for herbicide application and lack of tree cover. And probably a host of other variables.

 

[FlimFlam]

But what will that tell you? It will not tell you why the foliage under the lines is as it is if you do not control for herbicide application and lack of tree cover. And probably a host of other variables.

Well if I had a way to, I'd test for herbicides.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Well if I had a way to

It's not an "if". It's a prerequisite for the exercise that all possible factors are involved. I didn't realize that you were talking in terms of very high Electric Fields in the close proximity of a conductor. That's a different sort of experiment and would have no relevance to human risks of exposure to power lines. Anyone who stands that close is likely to die of electric shock.
Perhaps if, as a result of the few comments you have read on this thread, you could construct a thought experiment in detail and then present it for more comments. I don't think anyone is saying it's a nonsense basic idea - just that you haven't thought it through yet.

 

[berkeman]

To be frank, if you've done quality research you should know that isn't a useful thing to do.

@FlimFlam -- this is the key point in this thread, and you have not addressed it. We are all about mainstream science here at the PF. This thread is closed until you can send me a Private Message with links to the references you have found and analyzed. Be careful -- there is a lot of misinformation out there. The standard bar that we set at the PF is to use peer-reviewed journal articles and mainstream textbooks for references in your reading and research. So much of what you read in the popular press is incorrect and misleading.

Please do that searching / reading / research. Then PM me with what you have found if you'd like this thread re-opened with a more scientific theme. Thank you.