Gravitational Potential of a Chargeless Particle Confined in a Box | Einstone

In summary, the conversation discusses the gravitational potential produced by a chargeless particle confined in a box in a stationary state. The potential is determined by the wavefunction and the Schrodinger equation, and the particle does not interact with its own gravitational field. However, there is currently no proper equation or theory to describe the gravitational field or potential generated by a quantum particle, as this would require a theory of quantum gravity. The conversation also touches on the limitations and validity of different theories, such as general relativity and Dirac's equation.
  • #1
einstone
29
0
What is the gravitational potential produced by a chargeless particle confined in a box if the particle is in a stationary state ( for the nonce,in the lowest energy state)?
Thanking you,
Einstone.
 
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  • #2
[tex] V=-\frac{Gm}{r} [/tex],if the particle in the origin of a system of coordinates.

Daniel.

P.S.Why...?What's the "box" catch...?
 
  • #3
Oh, I owe you an apology. It was remiss of me to have said 'a particle'
insted of a 'microparticle' in the question. I reckon the choice of a box would produce the simplest possible wavefunctions.
Thanking you,
Einstone.
 
  • #4
What do wavefunctions have to do with the gravitational potential created by the same particle (and not by another body)...?

Daniel.
 
  • #5
How is the potential at a point inside the box determined? It should depend
upon the wavefunction.
Thank you for the reply.
I'm, with great respect,
Einstone.
 
  • #6
Surprise.Usually,the potential is GIVEN...The wavefunction's is computed knowing the potential and usually not viceversa.That's because you cannot know wavefunctions through other method,than solving Schrödinger's eq.which assumes knowing the potential...:wink:

Daniel.
 
  • #7
einstone said:
How is the potential at a point inside the box determined? It should depend
upon the wavefunction.
Thank you for the reply.
I'm, with great respect,
Einstone.

Er.. if this "wavefunction" that you are talking about is the solution to the Schrodinger equation, then you have put the tail in front of the donkey. It is the wavefuction that is dependent on the potential, NOT the other way around. You don't find the solution to the differential equation and THEN write down the differential equation. And if you look at the Schrodinger equation that you have to solve, the "V" in there IS exactly the potential. Only after you know what V is, do you get the wavefunction.

Zz.
 
  • #8
Thank you for the replies.
Does the particle interact with its own gravitational field ( which is
present even in absence of any other potential)? If not, what is the gravitational field produced by it?
So daffy of me to have forgotten about the gravitation & thought that the particle was free! Then I went on to find the wavefunction & calculate the potential.
 
  • #9
Of course,in the CLASSICAL theory of GR,just in CED,particles can interact with their own gravity field.

In the Newtonian theory,i've already told you what the potential is.

Daniel.
 
  • #10
einstone said:
What is the gravitational potential produced by a chargeless particle confined in a box if the particle is in a stationary state ( for the nonce,in the lowest energy state)?
As already mentioned, you can describe a particle inside a gravitational potential making use of the Schrödinger equation. However, if you want to describe the gravitational field or gravitational potential generated by quantum particle you have no proper equations nor a theory to do that. In chapter 14 of R. Wald's "General Relativity", a simple argument is given why this cannot work with the current physics (a "quantum" particle and "classical" gravitation): The (classical) gravitational field should spread according to the particles' wavefunction. The instantaneous wavefunction collapse would lead to a superluminal propagation of the changes of the field. To describe this properly a quantum field theory for gravitation (or quantum gravity) would be needed in which the superposition principle would be also valid for the gravitational field.
 
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  • #11
hellfire said:
However, if you want to describe the gravitational field or gravitational potential generated by quantum particle you have no proper equations nor a theory to do that.
Good Heavens! Never mind the equations, but is there not even a consistent theory? I thought I'd solve the problem & generalise it step by step to include Relativistic Gravitation ,then Dirac's equation & ...!
How, then, do all the theories give correct answers?
 
  • #12
Only as partial theories.If u want to mix gravity & Dirac fields,end up with Sugra N=1,okay,but you can do that:
1.In the free falling frame.
2.The field theory is not renormalizable under quantization,...

But of course,both Dirac & GR are perfectly valid theories,on THEIR OWN...

Daniel.
 
  • #13
I Love This Forum! I learn more from this site than from any classroom! :biggrin:
 

1. What is the gravitational potential of a chargeless particle?

The gravitational potential of a chargeless particle is defined as the amount of work required to move the particle from infinity to a specific point in space, in the presence of a gravitational field. It is measured in joules per kilogram (J/kg).

2. What is the significance of a chargeless particle in relation to gravitational potential?

A chargeless particle is used as a theoretical concept to understand the behavior of particles in a gravitational field without the added complexity of electrical interactions. This allows scientists to isolate and study the effects of gravity on a particle, making it easier to understand the fundamental principles of gravitational potential.

3. How is the gravitational potential of a chargeless particle confined in a box calculated?

The gravitational potential of a chargeless particle confined in a box can be calculated using the formula V = -GM/r, where G is the gravitational constant, M is the mass of the particle, and r is the distance from the particle to the center of the box. This formula only applies for particles that are small compared to the size of the box and are not interacting with any other particles.

4. What is the significance of the term "Einstone" in the context of gravitational potential?

The term "Einstone" is a play on words, combining the names of two famous scientists - Albert Einstein, known for his theory of general relativity which explains the behavior of gravity, and Sir Isaac Newton, known for his law of universal gravitation. This term is often used in a humorous or informal manner to refer to the concept of gravitational potential.

5. How does the gravitational potential of a chargeless particle change when confined in a box?

The gravitational potential of a chargeless particle confined in a box is affected by the size and mass of the box. As the particle gets closer to the center of the box, the potential energy decreases, and as it moves away, the potential energy increases. The shape and orientation of the box can also affect the gravitational potential of the particle.

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