Group velocity and phase velocity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the derivation and understanding of group velocity, specifically the equation group velocity = dw/dk. Participants explore the conditions under which this relationship holds, its approximations, and implications for wave behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests clarification on the derivation of group velocity and its approximations.
  • Another participant notes that the derivation is available in the referenced link and defines group velocity as the velocity of the wave envelope, indicating it is an approximation based on first-order terms in k.
  • A participant questions the linearization equation and its applicability to wavefunctions approaching delta functions.
  • It is mentioned that the linearization is an approximation valid when A(k) is sharply peaked, and that higher-order terms may alter the pulse shape, leading to "chirping."
  • One participant challenges the idea that group velocity is simply dw/dk, citing their professor's differing view, suggesting that adding sine wave functions leads to envelope formation that contradicts this definition.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity and application of the group velocity equation, with some supporting its approximation under specific conditions and others questioning its general applicability.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations related to the assumptions of sharp peaks in A(k) and the potential need for higher-order terms in certain wave scenarios.

Naman Jain Kota
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Could you please explain the derivation of
group velocity = dw/dk

I read ut here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_velocity

Is it approximation, if so under what circumstances
 
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Isn't the derivation already available in that link? The group velocity is defined to be the velocity at which the envelope of a wave travels. It's an approximation in the sense that it was derived involving approximating the phase in first order of ##k##.
 
How did they put the linearization equation?
Was there approximate and then it could really be applied for wavefunction approaching delta functions
 
Yes, the linearization is an approximation which only applies to cases where ##A(k)## is sharply peaked. If this is not the case, higher orders of the phase must be included in the calculation and they usually lead to the modification of the shape of the pulse (so-called "chirping").
 
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If i add two sine wave functions (real parts) envelopes are formed. So group velocity must not be dw/dk. Asking coz my proff said that which i feel is wrong
 

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