Groups, order G = 60, G simple

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a group G of order 60, which is stated to be simple, and the goal is to prove that G is isomorphic to the alternating group A5. Participants are exploring the implications of Sylow's Theorems and the properties of group actions related to subgroup indices.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to understand why G cannot have subgroups of certain indices (2, 3, 4, 5) under the assumption that G is not isomorphic to A5. They seek clarification on the validity of this assumption and whether it is an obvious result or requires deeper understanding.
  • Some participants discuss the relationship between subgroup indices and homomorphisms to symmetric groups, particularly focusing on the implications of subgroup orders and normality.
  • Others express their unfamiliarity with specific terms and concepts, indicating a need for further foundational knowledge before proceeding with the problem.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights into group homomorphisms and subgroup actions. There is a recognition of the need for foundational understanding among some participants, and while guidance has been offered, there is no explicit consensus on the best approach to the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention a lack of familiarity with certain group theory concepts, which may affect their ability to engage fully with the problem. The original poster expresses uncertainty about whether to continue exploring the problem or to pause until they have more knowledge about groups.

rourky
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1. G a Group of order 60, G simple, prove G isomorphic to A5



2. Familiar with Sylow's Theorems, theorems leading up to Sylow.



3. We make the assumption that G is not isomorphic to A5
Then "given G cannot have a subgroup of index 2, 3, 4, 5," I can
get the result.
My problem is I don't know why the quoted statement is true.
Clear for 2 alright, given G simple, but 3, 4, 5?
Is this a fairly obvious result (if so, a hint please), or is it difficult to
prove and should i move on until I know more about groups?
 
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Some of them are clear: if there is a subgroup of index d, then there is a homomorphism to S_d, the symmetric group on d elements - i.e. the (transitive, i.e. there is only one orbit) group action on the cosets. So for d=2,3,4, the orders of S_d are 2,6,24, so it is not injective, hence has a kernel, which would be normal. This only leaves the index 5 case. Again, this must be injective, so it is up to you to figure out what the (transitive) subgroups of order 60 are in S_5. There of course might be a better way to do the question than this.
 
Thanks Matt,

A little "over my head". Not your fault though, just haven't heard of the terms "transitive subgroup" and "transitive group action". Unfamiliar with opening result as well, actually thought it was Cayley's theorem at first. Really appreciate the help, now happy in the knowledge that I wasn't overlooking some result from my course. Will leave topic until I know more about groups.

Thanks again, Ciaran
 
Erm. But the proof for 2,3,4 is elementary - it just needs you to know what a group homomorphism is. I'm sure you're happy with groupt actions on sets.And as I said, there is no reason why what I wrote for d=5, or any other case, is the only way to do it. If your course set this question, you should be able to do it.

(Transitivity is a red herring, I just put it in there for completeness.)
 

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