H parameter analysis of transistor amplifiers.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the h parameter analysis of transistor amplifiers, specifically focusing on the relationships between input and output variables in the context of common emitter RC coupled amplifiers. Participants explore the implications of these relationships and the challenges in calculating unknowns based on the h parameters.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of using the h parameter equations, suggesting that the input voltage (Vin) is not dependent on the output voltage (Vout), which contradicts the equations.
  • Another participant clarifies that the equations can be rearranged to isolate any variable, indicating that holding Vin fixed allows for determining Iin and Vout.
  • A participant expresses confusion about calculating three unknowns (Vout, Iin, and Iout) with only two equations from the h parameters, seeking further clarification.
  • Discussion includes the relationship between Iout and Vout, with one participant stating that Iout can be expressed in terms of Iin and Vout using the h parameter equations.
  • Another participant suggests that without a load, Iout is zero, which simplifies the equations to two unknowns.
  • A participant proposes that for any linear two-port network, any two parameters can be fixed to derive the other two, discussing the equivalence of different parameter models (Z, Y, and h parameters).
  • Participants express a desire for confirmation or correction of their understanding of the concepts discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and confusion regarding the application of h parameters, with some clarifying points while others express uncertainty about the calculations and relationships involved. No consensus is reached on the validity of the initial assumptions regarding the dependence of variables.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their ability to calculate unknowns due to the number of equations available and the assumptions made about the relationships between the parameters.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and practitioners interested in transistor amplifier analysis, particularly those exploring the application of h parameters in circuit design and analysis.

ShreyasR
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In h parameter analysis, we take the input current and output voltage as independent variables. and the Input voltage and output current are dependent on the input current and output voltage. They are related as:

Vin = h11Iin + h12Vout ___(1)
Iout = h21Iin + h22Vout ___(2)

In case of a transistor amplifier (say, common emitter RC coupled amplifier), practically say if we are feeding an input voltage (sine) to the amplifier using a signal generator, then Vin is decided by us. I would say Vin is not dependent on the output voltage of the amplifier.

If this is the case, if we are doing h parameter analysis, I feel the use of Equation (1) becomes invalid as it suggests that the input voltage is dependent on the output.

Because of this, I am not convinced with h parameter analysis of transistor circuits. :confused: :confused: :frown: :frown: Someone please help me with this? :smile:
 
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Hi ShreyasR. These are linear equations, so you can rearrange them to make any term the subject of the forumula. If you hold Vin fixed, then you are determining Iin and Vout.

You can connect one signal generator to set Vin and another to set Vout if you wish to fix both!
 
OMG! Silly me... thank you! :smile:
 
Sorry. I thought that made sense but then i landed up in this situation.
When i connect a signal generator to the input, all that i know is Vin, and the h parameters. So how do i theoretically calculate 3 unknowns (Vout, Iin and Iout) when i have only two equations from the h parameters?

I wish i had Iin... But when i draw the H parameter equivalent model, I am not able to obtain another equation to get Iin. :confused::frown:
 
Sorry. I thought that made sense but then i landed up in this situation.
When i connect a signal generator to the input, all that i know is Vin, and the h parameters. So how do i theoretically calculate 3 unknowns (Vout, Iin and Iout) when i have only two equations from the h parameters?

I wish i had Iin... But when i draw the H parameter equivalent model, I am not able to obtain another equation to get Iin. :confused::frown:
 
What is the relation between Iout and Vout?
 
Iout = h21Iin + h22Vout this is the relation between Iout and Vout (Equation 2)
 
ShreyasR said:
So how do i theoretically calculate 3 unknowns (Vout, Iin and Iout) when i have only two equations from the h parameters?

Without a load, Iout is zero; that gives you two equations in two unknowns.
 
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ShreyasR said:
Iout = h21Iin + h22Vout this is the relation between Iout and Vout (Equation 2)
The answer I was looking for ... :smile:

is that Iout = - Vout / RL

So there is your third equation. (3 equations, 3 unknowns)
 
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  • #10
Oh my! Thank you NascentOxygen and The Electrician... I made a mistake in marking Iout... It is the current flowing through the load and not through hoe... Well now i get it all...

Now i guess i get a clear picture of two port networks. This is how I have understood it:

For any linear two port network, we can consider any two parameters out of the set {Vin, Vout, Iin and Iout} to be fixed and write them down as a linear function of the other two parameters.

And when we consider two parameters to be fixed, they need not actually be independent, but this is just to obtain an equivalent model (either Z parameter model, Y parameter model or hybrid parameter model). And any of these models can be converted to some other model.


Can i say this is the basic principle used in two port analysis? I have just typed what I have understood. If there is anything wrong in the way i have understood this, please correct me. Thanks!
 
  • #11
Someone please correct me if I am wrong... Is my understanding of this concept just fine? This will be the last question...
 
  • #12
That sounds okay.
 

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