Has anyone here ever experienced an enlightenment?

[eNtRopY]

And of course I'm referring to a Buddhist enlightenment.
Please share.

eNtRopY

 

[Kerrie]

i am not sure about buddhist enlightenment, but i have felt confident in my purpose of being alive, which is the next best feeling to hugging my kids...

 

[Iacchus32]

I died and gave birth to myself so to speak, if you care to check out the following link ... http://www.dionysus.org/x0501.html

 

[radagast]

I believe I had what would be called an enlightenment experience - kensho (at least by my school). This is a long way from being enlightened, being the experience cannot last long without a properly prepared mind (mine wasn't and still isn't). I have many, too many ego habits. These ego habits are really good at chasing the experience away.

The experience included an extremely profound feeling of peace, a total cessation of mind chatter, a degree of clarity not even close to experienced prior or since, an extreme feeling of both contentment and painfully strong feeling of calm centeredness, and the strong intuitive understanding that all the divisions we tend to think of as real (me vs you, me vs the floor, etc.), which tend to separate us, were artificial. There was an intense intimacy of experience - hard to describe, but it was as if all experience prior and since was from behind a thick pane of glass and at a distance, and that experience was without any separation from the senses. There was no sense of 'me' present. I had been in a distinct amount of physical discomfort. Though the pain was still there, it just didn't matter any more. As if it were of no more concern than the color of the walls. It was probably the only time in my life I've lived completely in the moment, with no worries or concerns from the past or fears, anticipations about the future having any emotional effect on the present.

To say the experience was pleasant is both an strong understatement and misleading. It was as if I had been in intense pain all my life and suddenly the pain was completely gone. Very reminiscent of intense relief.

Was it an experience of enlightenment, I can't say. It seems to fit descriptions I've heard in my school, but I don't know.

 

[Kerrie]

Originally posted by radagast The experience included an extremely profound feeling of peace, a total cessation of mind chatter, a degree of clarity not even close to experienced prior or since, an extreme feeling of both contentment and painfully strong feeling of calm centeredness, and the strong intuitive understanding that all the divisions we tend to think of as real (me vs you, me vs the floor, etc.), which tend to separate us, were artificial. There was an intense intimacy of experience - hard to describe, but it was as if all experience prior and since was from behind a thick pane of glass and at a distance, and that experience was without any separation from the senses. There was no sense of 'me' present. I had been in a distinct amount of physical discomfort. Though the pain was still there, it just didn't matter any more. As if it were of no more concern than the color of the walls. It was probably the only time in my life I've lived completely in the moment, with no worries or concerns from the past or fears, anticipations about the future having any emotional effect on the present.

that would describe what i have felt before, especially the calm centerdness and the sense that my ego/identity was gone and didn't matter...

 

[Royce]

That experience is called by some to be in the moment with the One of which we are all part. It is not that realitly is artificial, it isn't; but, compared to the spiritual plane it is the illusion. I have experienced it many times as you will if you care to. It is one of the first steps. Just quiet your ego, just as you did your mind. It is possible and one of the things we must learn. We must gain control over and be in charge of our egos instead of the other way around. It just takes practice, patients, and determination but not effort.
Once you become more familiar with the experience you will became aware of your true self and otherselfs that are all part of the One.

Sometimes, at least in christian meditation we are also suffused and bathed in intense light that is comforting and healing as well as joyful and awe inspiring. This is ,I believe what christians mean when they say that they have seen the light as in the song.
My thinking is that you, we, are no longer affected by pain or ego because we are at that moment in our soul or spirit rather than mind and body.
Try something for me when you get a chance, if you will. When in that state in that moment ask a question, a deep profound meaningful question of importance to you. See if the answer comes to you as it did and does to me.

No I am not enlightened yet either and have a far way to go. We are fellow travelers all on our own path traveling at our own pace; but we are never alone. Good luck in your travels.

 

[radagast]

Hi Royce,
I can't say I've found the replication of my experience to be at all easy. As I said, it occurred only once. I meditate daily and attend intense retreats three times a year (which was when this occurred), but have only experienced it once. I have experienced deep Samadhi (a deep meditative state where you are completely in the moment, having some of the other aspects, mentioned) a number of times, but Kensho only once. Others I know have experienced it more often, but I know extremely few that can experience it at will. If you can experience what I experienced, without great effort, I truly envy you.

I've often thought that certain experiences, within Christian practice, are likely the same as in Buddhist practice. With a different interpretation of the experience, no doubt, but the same basic experience.

 

[Royce]

Never said it was easy and I doubt that I have experienced the intensity, if that is the correct word, that you have more than a few times myself, if at all. I can only surmise that what we experienced was the same or nearly the same. I can't do it at that deep level at will but I did learn to quiet my ego and let it happen a number of times.
Personally, I am sure that the individual interpets each experience differently requardless of their backgound. It depends on what the individual can relate to at that time and what his needs are at that time. It also has a lot to do with what they expect to see or experience from their cultural environment. This of course is my opinion only. I would like to hear yours.
The first time I was bathed in the light was a total surprise to me and almost frightening as well as startling. If I had any expectations of seeing the light it was totally subconscious. It winked out almost immediately as my ego game charging to the forefront. The next time a few weeks or months later I was not quite so surprised and it came on more gradually so that I was able to welcome it and hold my ego in check. After a few more times I was able to sit and be bathed in the light for several minutes with no conflict until the real outside world forced me or required me to leave.
As for the other I think it may be the Buddhist Void. I have been there only once or twice and only for a short while but enough to see my true self in link with the ring that is everyone else and the One at the same time. Again this my be pure sef delution or a dream due to previously having read about it, but I don't think so.
Now when I meditate with any success at all, I am aware of my true self and at least one other constant companion whom I think of as Jesus or a part of the spirit of Jesus, my mentor as well as Lord and Master of the universe, Jesus Christ. This is hard to put into words without sounding presumptuous or overbearingly egotistical. It relates to the idea of christians letting Jesus into their lifes. It is not the personification of Jesus himself but a part of his spirit that he sends to be with us, guide us, mentor us and support us.
This is along with the spirit of God the Father that is within us all. If you prefer to call it the Buddha that is in all of us, okay, its the same thing or at least the same principle.
Anyway, if you want to go back there again, find a nice quiet time and place where you can be alone and not interupted for a while to meditate. Then meditate with only the desire to return to that place. Expect it. expect to go there and attempt to keep your ego in check just as you learned to keep you mind quiet. Don't try, just sincerely humbily desire this. It will come. If not now later when you've got your ego more under control.
You see our egos do not want to accept control nor accept something greater that itself so if left unchecked it will not let you go back.
Its just a spoiled selfish brat, a child and it must be delt with in the same way with firmness and deternination. It must learn just like a puppy, who is in charge, who the boss is. Good luck.

 

[megashawn]

Man, you guys try to hard. All you need is a 2 liter, a 3 liter, and, uhh, well, email me for details.

j/k


I can agree that meditating is relaxing, and I think that if you can actually manage to quiet the million thoughts bouncing inside your skull, and focus on one important question, then yes, you'd definately come up with a better answer as compared to sitting on the couch watching tv.

But I mean if your expecting something magical to happen when you sit in a dark, quiet room with your eyes closed and almost in a dream state, and it does, whoopy doo. How are you so certain it is a connection to some supreme master and not just a more solid connection to your deeper mind? Are you sure its a real expieriance, or merely a half awake, half asleep expieriance?

My guess, seeing as how meditation is usually quite a time consuming process, that you're probably in rem sleep by the time all the special feelings start to hit.

I can't say I've meditated amd reached a state either of you described, but I've had lots of expieriances similar to that as I was dozing off or just waking up.

 

[Royce]

Mg, It is not focsing that is part of the key. It is not trying that is the way. Focusing and trying defeat our purpose. Letting go and letting it happen is the way to do it.
If you have not experienced anything like it then there is no way anyone can tell you what it is like because there are no common terms to discribe it. Its like trying to discribe color to one who has always been blind and never seen color.
Getting in touch with your deeper mind is part only part of what it is all about. Once there then getting in touch with with our soul, spirit or the other reality is just one more step.
Where there is no fear there is no danger. The door is open; walk through it.

 

[radagast]

Originally posted by megashawn
Man, you guys try to hard. All you need is a 2 liter, a 3 liter, and, uhh, well, email me for details.

Yea, I think I used to do that type of meditation back in my late teens and twenties.

But I mean if your expecting something magical to happen when you sit in a dark, quiet room with your eyes closed and almost in a dream state, and it does, whoopy doo. How are you so certain it is a connection to some supreme master and not just a more solid connection to your deeper mind? Are you sure its a real expieriance, or merely a half awake, half asleep expieriance?

I only speak for myself, MG, but I see nothing supernatural in the experiences I've had. They are only part of the functioning of the brain. While they may seem magical experientially, it doesn't mean that there is something supernatural going on outside of my consciousness.

The experience I mentioned lasted about 20 minutes, including some walking and physical action, without the slightest bit of sleepiness involved. At the meditation retreats I've been on, we do get much less sleep that normal, and I have had near sleep hallucinations, near sleep dreams, and other sleep related experiences - these I'm very familiar with. The related experience was quite different.

I don't meditate with that experience being the goal. I meditate because it has and is changing me. The way I relate to the world and other people has changed significantly. And these changes occurred, initially without me realizing it. A specific incident occurred, where I would normally have gotten really pissed, (and as was my habit stayed ticked off for a few hours), and didn't. That started me asking family members and friends about changes in my behaviour. They had all noticed it, though I hadn't. When I started looking, I noticed it too - I didn't get upset with folks cutting me off on the highway, the patience I have with my kids has gotten a lot better, I find I don't mull over past injustices the way I used to. I've noticed I can be much more in the present in social situations that would normally have me constantly socially over thinking things. The clarity in my life has increased. All of the above factors are much more pronounced (even compared to normal) for about two weeks following returning from a retreat.

Are these due to meditation? I can't say for certain, but the fact that forty plus years of mental and emotional habits have started to change, in only a few years, with no other apparent explanation. Perhaps you can see why I attribute it to the meditation.

To be somewhat accurate, meditation, though easier in a quiet room, isn't necessarily just done in a quiet,dark room. I've entered meditative states during Aikido practice, while being attacked by four people (randori). When I'm able to do this I do much better. This meditative state is called Samadhi, and it's occurance is not uncommon in extremely good athletes during games - they refer to it as 'being in the zone'. There are also types of meditation that aren't quiet - chanting meditation, walking meditation, just to name a couple of the common ones. At meditation retreats, all actions are meant to be meditative, whether in seated meditation, serving meals, cleaning, or using the rest room.

 

[Royce]

Glen, I agree that there is nothing magical, mystical or supernatural about meditation despite the impressions that my previous post gave. I was only trying to relate my personal deepest and most profound experiences. The majority of the time I get out of it exactly what you discribe with much the same results.

 

[laserblue]

enlightenment

While I'm not sure what you mean by an enlightenment experience, I think I've had one. I'm not sure if there was anything I realized specifically as a result of it. Later in life I found that this was even a standard exercise in some religions.
When I was quite young, I started wondering late at night in my bunk 'What if there there wasn't an earth?'. I attempted to actually visualize this and after many minutes, something completely unexpected happenned. I found myself looking at the universe or something like a galaxy full of stars as though I was outside of it somehow and I had a feeling of complete peace and omniscience. Then I was back. It was like visiting Shangri-la and I've always wanted to return.

 

[Andy]

Dont Drink and Drive, Smoke and FLY!

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Andy
Dont Drink and Drive, Smoke and FLY!

Don't you have to be old enough to get a drivers licence, first?

Aside from that, it's Bloody dangerous to do. (Years of driving experiance, trucks, cars, snow plows, tractors, motorcycles, heavy equipment, etc.)

EDIT PS depends upon just what you mean by enlightenment, but probably yes!

 

[Andy]

In the UK you only have to be 17 to drive, and i do have a valid drivers license with no convictions of any kind not even a parking ticket on my license, and i have been driving for about 4 months now about 10 months if you include lessons.

PS, i don't fly that often, but i never drink and drive.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Yes and I have more then 260** months of driving experiance, and your in the highest inssurance bracket available, but neither of these two facts have anything to do with enlightenment, so back to that?

Of that time lots of it is professional time driving snow plows and salt trucks in the winter, having to go to work in the worst of possible WINTER[/color] weather, and not leaving till the weather breaks, sleet, freezing rain, snow, cold, and blowing cold days, cause of wind drifting, seen way more accidents then most people will ever know.

(SLOW DOWN!)


EDIT ** Oooooops, thirty years, let's see that's thirty time 12, that equals 360 months, Ooooops so sorry!

 

[Andy]

(SLOW DOWN!)

Who said anything about speeding, this is another thread where you have taken a comment far too seriously, and what was wrong with that comment anyway? "dont drink and drive (fine so far) smoke and fly!" what's wrong with smoking a bit of weed to get yourself high, obviously don't smoke and drive either.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Andy
Who said anything about speeding, this is another thread where you have taken a comment far too seriously, And just where do you derive that from? I merely mentioned to "slow down" because of the related experience that I have, posted above, the [/color]WINTER[/color] driving experiance, that has shown me, (Very clearly I might add) that most people get into trouble driving in the winter BECAUSE THEY DO NOT SLOW DOWN![/color] and what was wrong with that comment anyway? "dont drink and drive (fine so far) smoke and fly!" what's wrong with smoking a bit of weed to get yourself high, obviously don't smoke and drive either. No, because it is similar in nature to drinking and driving, adulteration of the senses, differently, but none the less adulteration. responce time is important in driving. As for the obviousness of anything about me, well, you don't know, and time is an important factor in life, sooooo...[/color]

Perhaps, you take yourself, just a little bit too seriously? Ya figure?

 

[Andy]

If youve got no money, how comes you can still drive, surely if you had no money then you wouldn't be able to afford the petrol (gas)?

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Andy
If youve got no money, how comes you can still drive, surely if you had no money then you wouldn't be able to afford the petrol (gas)?

Still have my drivers licence, (good for five years) stopped driving my own car back in 1999 when I took it to the scrap yard, to dispose of it (it still ran well, and could have been kept for longer) as my circumstances changed. The car had ~545,000 Kms (='s ~13 times around the planet) on it when I drove it to a scrapper, and sold it for some money. I had personally put ~220,000 of those Kms on that car, as I had bought it second hand for about a 'grand' ($1000.00)

But I still drove for a living, after that, company vehicules, trucks, heavy equipment, etc.

EDIT Does that help to "enlighten" you...Hee hee!

 

[Andy]

I'm Enlightened! you must be a bit rusty though if you haven't driven for 4 years, especially being as old as you are.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by Andy
I'm Enlightened[/color]! you must be a bit rusty though if you haven't driven for 4 years, especially being as old as you are.

I doubt that[/color], and you have just proven what I had known about you all along, you don't even bother to read the post!

Originally posted by Me, Mr. Robin Parsons
But I still drove for a living, after that[/size][/color], company vehicules, trucks, heavy equipment, etc.

BYE ANDY!

 

[Andy]

I will give you that one, but you still suck.

 

[pace]

I won't say I've felt any particularly religious enlightment.
But I do think I sometime feel enlightment about certain things, and I think it's one of the best feelings, cause it both touches my rationale and my affects. Thus my whole body.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by pace
I won't say I've felt any particularly religious enlightment.
But I do think I sometime feel enlightment about certain things, and I think it's one of the best feelings, cause it both touches my rationale and my affects. Thus my whole body.

That seems, to me, to be a fairly apt description of what occurs sometimes, othertimes, (I have found) it is (sorta) the "absence of feeling" that acknowledges that moment of enlightenment, the silence enlightens, but that one is usually only recognized afterwards, and is sort of different in it's effects/affects.

 

[eNtRopY]

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
That seems, to me, to be a fairly apt description of what occurs sometimes, othertimes, (I have found) it is (sorta) the "absence of feeling" that acknowledges that moment of enlightenment, the silence enlightens, but that one is usually only recognized afterwards, and is sort of different in it's effects/affects.

Somehow I refuse to believe that 44 year old "men" who dedicate their entire day to peddling 30 km from their illegally camped tent to the computer room at the Kingston Public Library for the sole purpose of arguing on internet message boards with 17 year old boys are capable of achieving a true Buddhist enlightenment.

eNtRopY

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by eNtRopY
Somehow I refuse to believe that 44 year old "men" who dedicate their entire day to peddling 30 km from their illegally camped tent to the computer room at the Kingston Public Library for the sole purpose of arguing on internet message boards with 17 year old boys are capable of achieving a true Buddhist enlightenment.

eNtRopY

#1) I'm 47 not 44

#2) 10 kms either way = 20 kms /day

#3) And the other 'places' that I use computers, Queens University et al

#4) apparently you seem to think that the ony thing I do is exchange with andy, (17 year old Boy) what an un-enlightened cursive thing you are!

#5) Might have achieved that years back, but you would never know that, would you?, how could you?, you are to busy thinking of ways to be insulting.

EDIT aside from all of that, what do you know about what I do with the rest of my day? I'll tell you, NOTHING, hence, you judge in ignorance, that tells of you, and your judgmental abilities/inabilities. Why don't you try something constructive for a change, like trying to learn to control your own mouth!

 

[eNtRopY]

There is no way you are enlightened. You become angry far too fast. You are far too controlled by your emotions. If you ever were enlightened, then would still be today. Being enlightened means being completely aware. One who is completely aware of his/her situation would not let that outlook on life slip away.

eNtRopY

 

[radagast]

No insult intended, RP, but using the definition of Enlightenment typical of Buddhism, I'd have to lean toward agreeing with ENtropy. Loss of ego is extremely typical of enlightened individuals. Even people that are practicing toward that are a lot like that - they will almost never be seen in an argument or debate. Just your last response would have been extremely atypical of an enlightened person.

e.g.

EDIT aside from all of that, what do you know about what I do with the rest of my day? I'll tell you, NOTHING, hence, you judge in ignorance, that tells of you, and your judgmental abilities/inabilities. Why don't you try something constructive for a change, like trying to learn to control your own mouth!

That you could have experienced an enlightenment type experience, I could see. But an enlightenment experience, as profound as they tend to be, rarely last unless your entire state of being and personality has been transformed (usually thru a great deal of effort and considerable amount of time) into something compatible with remaining enlightened.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

This is what I had typed prior to seeing your responces, Hee hee,
WOOHOOooooooooo!
-----------

July 8 2003

So, eNtRoPy, you mentioned the idea of "Buddhist Enlightenment", if observant of Buddhist Monks you would notice, (in the older ones more-so) the 'Serenity of Being' that is achieved through/by/in the placating of the 'noises' of the mind.

This path is found by practice, (inner-intellectual practice) the preceding practice, needed to reach that state, is the practice of the silencing of the mouth, and that practice, is preceded by the controlling of the minds output through (outa) the mouth, AKA controlling your own speech. (Patterns/word usage*[/color])

So we start the practices of (Jedi?) mind training, (Enlightened Buddhist Mindset) with the end result, the goal/gold in mind, of "Placating the Noises of the Mind" as to enjoy the serenity of a peaceful mind, by first learning to control ourselves in the manner(s) of our speech, followed by the learning of the controls of the mouth, learning to NOT speak, followed thereafter by the learning of the control of the thinking processes themselves, in the learning to silence the mind.


*[/color] The reasoning for the need of control over the word usage, speech patterns is in the recognition of the Emotive Driver that has association with speech patterns and the rebounding of the Emotive within the orator, literally stated as, "Your words end up driving you, and (then) your emotions, which will (then) drive your words, which will (then) drive your Emotions", so your ability to self control, delves from your ability to achieve some control over that type of patternistic process.

As for the idea of me "pedaling all this way, just to argue with seventeen year old boys" is sorta-kinda not very realistic about the situation that I find that I am currently in, inasmuch as, some might realize that one of the things that I pedal into town for, every day, is a simpler thing, it's called FOOD.

Hope that helps...?

(This part is after I had read the responces)

As for how "Enlightened" I actually am?, you don't know...period!
eNtRoPy accuses me of anger to quickly, sees himself in that one, NOT moi, that is very clear to me, but why is it so clear to me, yet he doesn't see that?

"Atypical" is simply your judgment radagast, so it isn't what you expect, welcome to the Real world, try training yourself to be silent, "Non-talkative", in North American Society. Just this morning, someone calling me "antisocial", behind my back, because I walked by them, in silence. What is 'typical', or 'atypical', about that?

Find the Ego(tist), in what I write, not as simple as you would think, cause I can reasonably assure you that you will find your own, first!

 

[radagast]

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
"Atypical" is simply your judgment radagast, so it isn't what you expect, welcome to the Real world, try training yourself to be silent, "Non-talkative", in North American Society. Just this morning, someone calling me "antisocial", behind my back, because I walked by them, in silence. What is 'typical', or 'atypical', about that?

Find the Ego(tist), in what I write, not as simple as you would think, cause I can reasonably assure you that you will find your own, first!

While it is my judgement, it is one I tend to trust. As for training, it do that quite regularly, both alone and with Buddhist monks. Being around them I do get the feel for the clarity or calmness that I, as a 'non-enlightened being' would expect sense around, and as part of, an enlightened individual. I have had, what I believe to be, an enlightenment experience (satori), so I feel I've got at least some grounding in forming a judgement in the area.

You speak of someone considering you antisocial for not speaking. While I wouldn't say my teacher is enlightened, I'm sure he is much closer than anyone else I've met personally. He talks only very rarely. I can imagine no case where anyone could or would consider him antisocial. Though he may not speak when he passes you, there is a profound sense of quiet compassion there. It is just my opinion, but I can't imagine someone that has achieved enlightenment to be considered antisocial, even in passing.

I have observed quite a bit of what you've written. Though you wouldn't be, what I would consider, egotistical, your ego shines thru just fine. As, I'm certain, does mine. This is what is lacking in the 'more' enlightened folk I've been associated with.

In reading your response carefully, I realize you are not claiming that you are enlightened and I'm not trying to argue with you, only voice how I would interpret what I've observed, regarding enlightenment of an individual, using you as an example.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by radagast
(SNIP) I have observed quite a bit of what you've written. Though you wouldn't be, what I would consider, egotistical, your ego shines thru just fine. As, I'm certain, does mine. This is what is lacking in the 'more' enlightened folk I've been associated with. (SNoP)

Examples please... as one of the things that is (has been) very clear, in my life, is just how many people cannot tell/recognize the truth about the Ego's of 'others', inasmuch as the "takes one to know one" rule requires that, for you to recognize one who operates mostly absent of egotistical drive, you must be able to subdue your own ego to "at least" that degree...most cannot see 'that' which is 'that' which they cannot reach.

The easiest examples of Ego come from persons/peoples judgments, how well they are based in something, balanced against admittence to their own (self recognized) ignorance.

 

[radagast]

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
Examples please... as one of the things that is (has been) very clear, in my life, is just how many people cannot tell/recognize the truth about the Ego's of 'others', inasmuch as the "takes one to know one" rule requires that, for you to recognize one who operates mostly absent of egotistical drive, you must be able to subdue your own ego to "at least" that degree...most cannot see 'that' which is 'that' which they cannot reach.

The easiest examples of Ego come from persons/peoples judgments, how well they are based in something, balanced against admittence to their own (self recognized) ignorance.

Depending on your meanings, I'm not sure I disagree, yet there are things I can recognize in others that I cannot do myself.

When at retreat, there was situation during a work period, where one monk - having seen where we had been really working hard, told us to have a seat a get a cup of coffee. That monk left the kitchen and less than 20 seconds later another walked in and assumed we were loafing. We got chewed out for it. Normally I would have felt compelled to explain the situation. Having been at the retreat a while, our egos had subsided enough to intuitively realize that it really didn't matter, so we simply got up and resumed working. Having experienced a few times of reduced ego, I can often recognize it in others. As long as a persons ego isn't directly involved with another person having or not having an ego, they can sense the absence of the things we often associate with ego - judgemental behavior, lack of clarity of thought/action, defense mechanisms. In addition, reduced ego people listen better, because their ego's aren't getting in the way, they seem to be in the moment much more often than the rest of us, plus half a dozen attributes that have been mentioned here before, so don't need repeating.

Just as well, it doesn't take a lot of experience to realize when someone's verbally defensive. In an online situation, that is an excellent example of one's ego shining thru. What else would lead a person to defend a position - when nothing serious would occur from a lack of defense.

When you ask for examples, that, by itself, is a defensive act. Think about it. When it really comes down to it, why would you care whether we think your enlightened or not, yet you still manage to brave a written defense.

One thing you state really strikes to the heart of the matter. Judgement. Unbidden, when one person is judging another's actions/words/position, that, in and of itself, is an obvious act of ego. The persons I've known that were much closer to enlightenment than I am (or likely ever will be) are about as non-judgmental as they come.

 

[Andy]

4) apparently you seem to think that the ony thing I do is exchange with andy, (17 year old Boy) what an un-enlightened cursive thing you are!

You definately do more than exchange with me, i have noticed you exchanging with many other people aswell.

 

[TENYEARS]

Radagast, I recommend the movie "Cirlce Of Iron".

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

So radagast, your own words...

Originally posted by radagast
Just as well, it doesn't take a lot of experience to realize when someone's verbally defensive. In an online situation, that is an excellent example of one's ego shining thru. What else would lead a person to defend a position The person wanting the truth to be the predominate result![/color]- when nothing serious would occur from a lack of defense. Not really true as, a lie may be left standing, that is unacceptable at this point in the pathway that, by God's Grace, I must follow. (by being led)[/color]

When you ask for examples, that, by itself, is a defensive act. Think about it. When it really comes down to it, why would you care whether we think your enlightened or not, NO, but I do care about the "Truth", and how that is presented to people as that is all they have to learn from, and, as the learning is the important part, I would prefer to (attempt) do that well, if possible.[/color] yet you still manage to brave a written defense.

One thing you state really strikes to the heart of the matter. Judgement. Unbidden, when one person is judging another's actions/words/position, that, in and of itself, is an obvious act of ego. Hence the next quotation, from you, you starting in the excersize of judgment, the second one, followed by your first one...[/color] The persons I've known that were much closer to enlightenment than I am (or likely ever will be) are about as non-judgmental as they come.

Clearly here you pass judgment, inasmuch as you trust your judgment...

Originally posted by radagast
While it is my judgement, it is one I tend to trust. As for training, it do that quite regularly, both alone and with Buddhist monks. Being around them I do get the feel for the clarity or calmness that I, as a 'non-enlightened being' would expect sense around, and as part of, an enlightened individual. I have had, what I believe to be, an enlightenment experience (satori), so I feel I've got at least some grounding in forming a judgement in the area.

But here you have made an assumption about me...that above you trust, but I ask you, based upon what?

Originally posted by radagast
No insult intended, RP, but using the definition of Enlightenment typical of Buddhism, I'd have to lean toward agreeing with ENtropy. Loss of ego is extremely typical of enlightened individuals. Even people that are practicing toward that are a lot like that - they will almost never be seen in an argument or debate. Just your last response would have been extremely atypical of an enlightened person.

As you have simply decided that you know 'the how' and 'the why' of my life, the presentation of the person, who is here, and yet you have little direct knowledge of me, no personal interaction, and are probably lacking in sufficient knowledge of the overall capabilities that I have been allowed to see/hear/feel/know/live in a full fourty seven years of living, (in my fourty-eighth) as the life that I lead has a form of a duality about it, that is exceedingly self evident, yet Abolutely impossible to validate to anyone else. (Personally, God's Grace. I really don't need to, haven't needed to for a lot longer then most people will ever know, and, again by God's Grace, I do care!)

One of the simplest manners of "Hiding an Ego", in North American Society, is by being having, and being able to communicate esoteric knowledge. In a discourse that is simply intellectual inasmuch as it seeks to find truthfull knowledge, an Ego can be very very well hidden, especially when the person is, Not completely absent of one, but absent enough to have learned the value of absenting it, By Practise!

(But again, you would not know! would you?, how could you?)

 

[radagast]

Originally posted by TENYEARS
Radagast, I recommend the movie "Cirlce Of Iron".

I've seen it. A very good movie.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by eNtRoPy
(SNIP)[/color] illegally camped tent (SNoP)[/color]

Curiousity? where did you get this idea from? the idea that my camping situation is "illegal"?

After all, your not a lawyer, right?

 

[eNtRopY]

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
Curiousity? where did you get this idea from? the idea that my camping situation is "illegal"?

It's just a play on words. By a strategic placement of a single adjective, I can make you sound ten worse. I learned this technique from the public education system of America.

Why do you think I called Andy a 17 year old boy? Had I called him a 17 year old man, then you would have sounded less like the homosexual pedophile that you may (or may not) be. Of course, human nature is to always assume the worst of a person. So you can see how easy it is for me to capitalize on this fact as well. Yes, I also learned technique from the American public education system.

We rule!

eNtRopY

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by eNtRopY
It's just a play on words. By a strategic placement of a single adjective, I can make you sound ten worse. I learned this technique from the public education system of America.

Why do you think I called Andy a 17 year old boy? Had I called him a 17 year old man, then you would have sounded less like the homosexual pedophile that you may (or may not) be. Of course, human nature is to always assume the worst of a person. So you can see how easy it is for me to capitalize on this fact as well. Yes, I also learned technique from the American public education system.

We rule!

eNtRopY

The braggadocio of a self inflated narcisist, not bad.

All you really suceed in doing, in the end, is lieing to yourself,

#1) cause you don't know if the "others" (the readers of these writings, other then your 'playpals') really believe you.

#2) becuase you must believe in your own lie(s) as to seem convincing.

#3) You think that because you can lie (and are willing to do it) that you are, therefore, Superior.

(clear proof of you duping yourself!)

 

[eNtRopY]

How am I lying? You still haven't proven to any of us that you are not a homosexual pedophile OR that you saved the Canadian government $40,000,000 OR that you have such a profound understanding of gravity that you are constantly on the run from American G-men who want to destroy the potentially dangerous information in your head OR that you are enlightened.

eNtRopY

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by eNtRopY
How am I lying? (Opening your mouth, seems to work!)[/color] You still haven't proven to any of us that you are not a homosexual pedophile OR that you saved the Canadian government $40,000,000 OR that you have such a profound understanding of gravity that you are constantly on the run from American G-men who want to destroy the potentially dangerous information in your head[/color] OR that you are enlightened.

eNtRopY

And I have abolutely no need to prove anything to you.

PS. you haven't proven a lick of that to be true, either, but you have, once again proven your[/color]self to be quite the "maker'r upperer of the storryer!" (How sad..and kinda silly, in a 'stupid' sort of way. Spuuun Doctor![/color] "weaver of de tails, de (false[/color]) trails")

 

[eNtRopY]

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
And I have abolutely no need to prove anything to you.

You have no need to lie to us either, yet that doesn't stop you.

eNtRopY

 

[radagast]

My original post seems to have been eaten by the system... Computers, got to love em.

Mr. P, Yes, I have made a judgement - having never claimed to be enlightened, this would be consistent with my current state of being.

Could I be incorrect, yes. I only have what I've seen to base my judgements on, so on that limited information have have made a judgement call. And your subsequent words didn't dissuade me from my original position.

Perhaps you are one of the few people in history to actually be enlightened. I've only heard of two that I considered enlightened in the last 2500 years (based on their words and actions), perhaps you're number 3. Imagine getting to sesshin and telling everyone that I got to talk to an enlightened person - the next Buddha.

And I was there!

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by eNtRopY
You have no need to lie to us either, yet that doesn't stop you.

eNtRopY

Again, here you go, accusing with no eveidence, no proof, nothing but your own self assumptive silliness.

Little boy, go back to your mama!

PS the thread is about enlightenment, I know that is difficult for you entropy, to deal with reality, but try, for the sake of all of the readers of these forums, try.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Originally posted by radagast
My original post seems to have been eaten by the system... Computers, got to love em.
Mr. P, Yes, I have made a judgement - having never claimed to be enlightened, this would be consistent with my current state of being.
Could I be incorrect, yes. I only have what I've seen to base my judgements on, so on that limited information have have made a judgement call. And your subsequent words didn't dissuade me from my original position.
Perhaps you are one of the few people in history to actually be enlightened. I've only heard of two that I considered enlightened in the last 2500 years (based on their words and actions), perhaps you're number 3. Imagine getting to sesshin and telling everyone that I got to talk to an enlightened person - the next Buddha.

And I was there!

I agree, that kind of enlightenment is really really rare on the face of the planet, but it still occurs.

Whether, or not, this is achievable, in my lifetime, is something that is between myself, and my creator. Clearly, to me, it wouldn't, and cannot, occur, save for the blessings of that creator being given to such result.

Praise be to God!

 

[radagast]

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
I agree, that kind of enlightenment is really really rare on the face of the planet, but it still occurs.

Whether, or not, this is achievable, in my lifetime, is something that is between myself, and my creator. Clearly, to me, it wouldn't, and cannot, occur, save for the blessings of that creator being given to such result.

Praise be to God!

That's the (extremely uncommon) kind of enlightenment that Entropy and I have been talking about.

Since it seems that your working definition was a little more commonly occurring, I withdraw any comments about your (lack of)attainment of enlightenment, under your definition.

 

[eNtRopY]

Originally posted by Mr. Robin Parsons
Praise be to God!

Although, the Zen philosophy doesn't address the issue of whether or not God exists, when you get right down to it, every great Zen master was an athiest.

eNtRopY

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

So let's put it this way, of all of the ones, who have achieved a true form of enlightenment, had to have had that within them, from the beginning, just that, they themselves, had not yet learned enough about themselves, to live with that which is within them, as free.

Even the mother who adopted me, recognized that I needed to be free.

(nature? nurture? 'or both!?)