Has PF Changed? Machine Tool Industry Perspective

[Noja888]

I first would like to say I am a huge fan of this site. I have been on here for 3+ years and enjoy the content that I cannot get much anywhere else. But over time the rules and closed threads have become less open to new ideas and non-crackpot concepts. I can smell a crackpot a mile away. (i work with a lot of salesmen in the machine tool industry) I look to this site when I need clarity on a concept or my thinking is on the right path. I have a good sense of the people with real knowledge on this forum and always look up to them with great respect. Has the direction of this site changed for the better in your opinion? Or what would you like to see more here? Moderators please weigh in and I ask all to be respectful in their opinions. Thanks.

 

[berkeman]

I first would like to say I am a huge fan of this site. I have been on here for 3+ years and enjoy the content that I cannot get much anywhere else. But over time the rules and closed threads have become less open to new ideas and non-crackpot concepts. I can smell a crackpot a mile away. (i work with a lot of salesmen in the machine tool industry) I look to this site when I need clarity on a concept or my thinking is on the right path. I have a good sense of the people with real knowledge on this forum and always look up to them with great respect. Has the direction of this site changed for the better in your opinion? Or what would you like to see more here? Moderators please weigh in and I ask all to be respectful in their opinions. Thanks.

See more what here? Have you read the other threads here in the Feedback forum about allowing more speculation? I think we've pretty much addressed that request already multiple times.

 

[PAllen]

I first would like to say I am a huge fan of this site. I have been on here for 3+ years and enjoy the content that I cannot get much anywhere else. But over time the rules and closed threads have become less open to new ideas and non-crackpot concepts. I can smell a crackpot a mile away. (i work with a lot of salesmen in the machine tool industry) I look to this site when I need clarity on a concept or my thinking is on the right path. I have a good sense of the people with real knowledge on this forum and always look up to them with great respect. Has the direction of this site changed for the better in your opinion? Or what would you like to see more here? Moderators please weigh in and I ask all to be respectful in their opinions. Thanks.

It could be helpful if you provide examples of what you see as negative trend. Except in a few areas like the philosophy forum, closure of 'independent research forum', rules have been pretty static. One obvious trend from human nature is if the same dubious idea (well intentioned or not) is raised for the 50th time, patience is less than the first time.

I do encourage that if there is a specific thread that you are convinced was mis-handled, pm a mentor. I have seen gray area threads re-opened following such a query. (Not often, but it has happened).

 

[wolfmeister]

well as a new member, i can say every interesting discussion here is locked!

I didn't realize everything was locked until after i signed up. lolanyone know a physics forum with quality people where one can discuss more "off the wall" ideas? pm me svp

cheers
wolfie
xx

 

[Evo]

well as a new member, i can say every interesting discussion here is locked!

I didn't realize everything was locked until after i signed up. lol


anyone know a physics forum with quality people where one can discuss more "off the wall" ideas? pm me svp

cheers
wolfie
xx

Quality and crackpottery don't go together. We do quality.

Lots and lots of places do crackpottery, I'm sure you won't have any problems finding them.

 

[PAllen]

well as a new member, i can say every interesting discussion here is locked!

I didn't realize everything was locked until after i signed up. lol


anyone know a physics forum with quality people where one can discuss more "off the wall" ideas? pm me svp

cheers
wolfie
xx

Crackpottery and reasonable scientific controversy are two different things. Here is an example of a long, robust debate on in a controversial position scientifically presented:

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=626874

On the other hand, a discussion of 'how could you make a wormhole, it must be possible' is not likely to last long or produce fruitful discussion.

 

[wolfmeister]

Quality and crackpottery don't go together. We do quality.

Lots and lots of places do crackpottery, I'm sure you won't have any problems finding them.

Oh... No "hello". No "welcome to the forum", no manners, no etiquette, no pleasantness.

Manners do not cost anything and perhaps some manner from the mods might help a forum have, i dunno, just some sort of friendliness at least... no?



As for "crackpottery" as you quaintly call it (not sure what you are referring to), i was under the impression that there is no objective reality in the quantum world, is that not correct?

I wonder what your qualifications are for making such statements?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Oh... No "hello". No "welcome to the forum", no manners, no etiquette, no pleasantness.

Manners do not cost anything and perhaps some manner from the mods might help a forum have, i dunno, just some sort of friendliness at least... no?

You are welcome, but it goes both ways. You are brand new. Are you here to contribute or just to complain?

 

[drizzle]

Oh... No "hello". No "welcome to the forum", no manners, no etiquette, no pleasantness.

Manners do not cost anything and perhaps some manner from the mods might help a forum have, i dunno, just some sort of friendliness at least... no?

GASPS! Are you saying this in my presence??

Don't you know that we have SPECIAL étiquette and welcoming ceremony??

 

[wolfmeister]

You are welcome, but it goes both ways. You are brand new. Are you here to contribute or just to complain?

er, no I joined, read about 6 or 8 threads in various sub-forums, all were locked, and I am now contributing to this thread (note the title) ON topic.

I am simply offering a newcomers perspective on this topic, y'know? the sort of feedback REAL businesses welcome and find very relevant.

Anyway you are welcome.

 

[berkeman]

er, no I joined, read about 6 or 8 threads in various sub-forums, all were locked, and I am now contributing to this thread (note the title) ON topic.

I am simply offering a newcomers perspective on this topic, y'know? the sort of feedback REAL businesses welcome and find very relevant.

Anyway you are welcome.

Did you read the Rules link (at the top of the page) when you joined? That's part of signing up here... If you read the Rules link, I would think that you would understand why some threads get locked.

 

[wolfmeister]

GASPS! Are you saying this in my presence??

Don't you know that we have SPECIAL étiquette and welcoming ceremony??

sense of humor.. well done. :)

 

[Evo]

er, no I joined, read about 6 or 8 threads in various sub-forums, all were locked, and I am now contributing to this thread (note the title) ON topic.

I am simply offering a newcomers perspective on this topic, y'know? the sort of feedback REAL businesses welcome and find very relevant.

Anyway you are welcome.

But you trashed the forum in a publicly viewed visitor mesage you posted yesterday. So, I'm confused about your intent.

 

[drizzle]

I'm thinking we should start the welcome ceremony right here, what do you think guys?

It's going to be fishy.

 

[wolfmeister]

But you trashed the forum in a publicly viewed visitor mesage you posted yesterday. So, I'm confused about your intent.

"trashed"? lol, oh please stop with the massive exaggeration; i wasn't "trashing" the forum, i was commenting on the quantity of locked discussions, but as YOU do a lot of the locking, it is perhaps natural that you so openly display your sense of feeling under personal attack.

So your "rules" appears to be that you will subjectively judge content based on your somewhat exaggerated sense of proportion (as shown above in your reply to me) and then lock stuff down based on that?

Bravo, VERY "scientific"


Perhaps the truth is that you are far too over-emotional and prone to exaggeration to moderate a science/physics forum.


Of course i might be wrong, perhaps you CAN take personal criticism without getting all huffy? We'll see won't we in your next response.


Anyways, time for dinner.. Sausages. yummy, the quantity of which will be inversely proportional to the empty space in my tummy.

cheerio.

 

[Borek]

For a random newcomer you pretend to know a lot about internal working of the forum.

 

[Evo]

"trashed"? lol, oh please stop with the massive exaggeration; i wasn't "trashing" the forum, i was commenting on the quantity of locked discussions, but as YOU do a lot of the locking, it is perhaps natural that you so openly display your sense of feeling under personal attack.

Not at all, threads are locked when they do not meet the guidelines. Apparently you like that kind of thread. That's fine, but the question remains do you have anything of merit to offer, or are you just complaining?

 

[Ryan_m_b]

well as a new member, i can say every interesting discussion here is locked!

I didn't realize everything was locked until after i signed up. lolanyone know a physics forum with quality people where one can discuss more "off the wall" ideas? pm me svp

cheers
wolfie
xx

Welcome to the forums. The following post is said in the spirit of clearing up this issue, if at any point you feel it is a personal attack please bear in mind that this is not how it was intended.

You seem to have a series of misunderstandings about how PF operates. This is probably due to your negligible engagement and seeming ignorance as to the rules. If PF isn't for you and you would like something with more crackpottery then you're sure to find many sites that provide that. If you want sites that allow you to develop scientific hypotheses then great, best of luck with that (though as a warning the latter tends to come hand in hand with the former).

With regards to your welcome here...surely you see the irony of acting the way you are and then attempting to take the intellectual and etiquette high ground as it were? Looking at the replies below I don't see anything indicative of that. In fact I see someone who comes across as arrogant and ignorant; not someone who wishes to impart feedback on why they aren't particularly attracted to a service (for a start you don't even display anything that indicates that you've thought about whether or not this service is for you).

As Greg said it works two ways. We are more than happy to welcome people to the forums, even a cursory search (especially in GD introductory threads) will show that there are a multitude of members here who are courteous and kind and really try hard to welcome new members into the community. At the same time being rude, demonstrably uninformed and acting quite childish is not something deserved of a warm welcome*.

As I said above if this forum isn't for you and you don't want to participate then I (and others) will sincerely wish you all the best in finding somewhere more to your liking. If you have feedback on how the site can improve in meeting its stated aims then that would be welcome to. But if this is a case of getting off on the wrong foot and you genuinely do want to use this site for the reason it is intended (the teaching and discussion of mainstream science) then I'm sure we can put this behind us and start again.

The choice now is yours.

* If you genuinely have trouble identifying what behaviour has expressed this then please see below where I have highlighted prominent examples.

Oh... No "hello". No "welcome to the forum", no manners, no etiquette, no pleasantness.

Manners do not cost anything and perhaps some manner from the mods might help a forum have, i dunno, just some sort of friendliness at least... no?
As for "crackpottery" as you quaintly call it (not sure what you are referring to), i was under the impression that there is no objective reality in the quantum world, is that not correct?

I wonder what your qualifications are for making such statements?

er, no I joined, read about 6 or 8 threads in various sub-forums, all were locked, and I am now contributing to this thread (note the title) ON topic.

I am simply offering a newcomers perspective on this topic, y'know? the sort of feedback REAL businesses welcome and find very relevant.

Anyway you are welcome.

"trashed"? lol, oh please stop with the massive exaggeration; i wasn't "trashing" the forum, i was commenting on the quantity of locked discussions, but as YOU do a lot of the locking, it is perhaps natural that you so openly display your sense of feeling under personal attack.

So your "rules" appears to be that you will subjectively judge content based on your somewhat exaggerated sense of proportion (as shown above in your reply to me) and then lock stuff down based on that?

Bravo, VERY "scientific"


Perhaps the truth is that you are far too over-emotional and prone to exaggeration to moderate a science/physics forum. Of course i might be wrong, perhaps you CAN take personal criticism without getting all huffy? We'll see won't we in your next response.


Anyways, time for dinner.. Sausages. yummy, the quantity of which will be inversely proportional to the empty space in my tummy.

cheerio.

 

[mathwonk]

absolutely! we have become totally lame! any other questions? i hope i have helped.

 

[lisab]

absolutely! we have become totally lame! any other questions? i hope i have helped.

I adore you, mathwonk .

 

[drizzle]

absolutely! we have become totally lame! any other questions? i hope i have helped.

Would you accept this wolfmeister? It's a wolf fish, it's really great that it'll open up your mind..

 

[harrylin]

er, no I joined, read about 6 or 8 threads in various sub-forums, all were locked, and I am now contributing to this thread (note the title) ON topic.

I am simply offering a newcomers perspective on this topic, y'know? the sort of feedback REAL businesses welcome and find very relevant.

Anyway you are welcome.

I brought up the same in a recent thread here (https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=633682); but I referred to the fact that some people do give the good example, which I also try to follow.

How can it be that your post counter counts zero posts, while I count several posts?!

@Ryan_m_b : Yes indeed!

 

[Ryan_m_b]

How can it be that your post counter counts zero posts, while I count several posts?!

Posts in the lounge do not count.

 

[harrylin]

Posts in the lounge do not count.

I had not noticed that the counter has a different function than just counting the number of posts on this site. Do members get a reward at a certain number of physics-related posts?

 

[Doc Al]

Do members get a reward at a certain number of physics-related posts?

Of course. Hope you like fish.

 

[jtbell]

Hint - If you don't "get" Doc Al's joke, do a search for the word "fish" in the General Discussion forum.

(I've seen you around a lot, but don't remember seeing you in GD much if at all.)

 

[Ryan_m_b]

I had not noticed that the counter has a different function than just counting the number of posts on this site. Do members get a reward at a certain number of physics-related posts?

Nope, post counts are nothing more than a count of posts in the technical forums.

In terms of rewards/types of account we have:

- Gold memberships that can be https://www.physicsforums.com/payments.php or earned through Project PF Proliferation.

- Science Advisor medals awarded through nomination and consensus by current SAs and mentors for demonstrably high scientific knowledge used to significantly contribute to the site

- Homework Helper medals are similar to SAs but for homework

- Mentors are selected by other mentors for contribution to the site in terms of not only scientific knowledge but community spirit

- Admins are selected by Greg to http://www.2dsecurity.com/files/1680673/uploaded/Wire_Tangle.jpg 25/8 to keep the site functional

- Annual awards are awarded via member nomination and voting each winter for a https://www.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=213

 

[harrylin]

I first would like to say I am a huge fan of this site. I have been on here for 3+ years and enjoy the content that I cannot get much anywhere else. But over time the rules and closed threads have become less open to new ideas and non-crackpot concepts. I can smell a crackpot a mile away. (i work with a lot of salesmen in the machine tool industry) I look to this site when I need clarity on a concept or my thinking is on the right path. I have a good sense of the people with real knowledge on this forum and always look up to them with great respect. Has the direction of this site changed for the better in your opinion? Or what would you like to see more here? Moderators please weigh in and I ask all to be respectful in their opinions. Thanks.

Yes, most of the time I have also been a huge fan of this site, and the discussions have both helped me and allowed me to help others a lot. However, I did not notice much change over the almost 2 yrs; and I certainly see no reason for your suggestion that PF has gone lame. And neither did I see evidence that the direction of this site changed for the better.

Very recently the suggestion was given and accepted to add more precise motivations/explanations for locking to already locked threads, but it is unclear if that suggestion is put into practice.
- https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=4062887

BTW there are for me more important issues with this site (mentioned in that same thread), but those are far away from your topic.

 

[harrylin]

Hint - If you don't "get" Doc Al's joke, do a search for the word "fish" in the General Discussion forum.
(I've seen you around a lot, but don't remember seeing you in GD much if at all.)

I found a lot of jokes on Newbees, but still don't have clue - now I feel like a newbee.
And yeah I rarely come here or there because those are hidden beneath the bottom of my screen and I can't keep up with the science discussions anyway!

Nope, post counts are nothing more than a count of posts in the technical forums.

In terms of rewards/types of account we have:

- Gold memberships that can be https://www.physicsforums.com/payments.php or earned through Project PF Proliferation.

- Science Advisor medals awarded through nomination and consensus by current SAs and mentors for demonstrably high scientific knowledge used to significantly contribute to the site

- Homework Helper medals are similar to SAs but for homework

- Mentors are selected by other mentors for contribution to the site in terms of not only scientific knowledge but community spirit

- Admins are selected by Greg to http://www.2dsecurity.com/files/1680673/uploaded/Wire_Tangle.jpg 25/8 to keep the site functional

- Annual awards are awarded via member nomination and voting each winter for a https://www.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=213

Thanks for that great summary!

 

[harrylin]

[..] BTW there are for me more important issues with this site (mentioned in that same thread), but those are far away from your topic.

PS: the main issue I had concerned ethics and I was at the point of abandoning PF because of it. However, just now PF is measurably improving on that for me essential point. Thanks folks! :!)

 

[Borek]

PS: the main issue I had concerned ethics and I was at the point of abandoning PF because of it. However, just now PF is measurably improving on that for me essential point. Thanks folks! :!)

Interesting. As far as I can tell nothing has changed on our side, we use exactly the same set of rules we used before.

 

[harrylin]

Interesting. As far as I can tell nothing has changed on our side, we use exactly the same set of rules we used before.

Rules are merely an incentive for conduct. The use of the same rules doesn't guarantee the same application, which is subject to the discretion of the Mentors. In general, rules can be differently interpreted, bent, not applied, unfairly applied, or inconsistently applied*. For a negative example, see Russia; and for a so-so example, see Wikipedia. Anyway, that is again another topic. In my experience (which is of course just a sample) PF certainly has not "gone lame".

*addendum: moreover rules do not (and cannot!) regulate all possible conduct - for example the guidelines do not require fair (honest) presentation of facts.

 

[dimension10]

anyone know a physics forum with quality people where one can discuss more "off the wall" ideas? pm me svp

cheers
wolfie
xx

A search engine. You can write anything in the search box.

 

[Byron Chen]

Oh... No "hello". No "welcome to the forum", no manners, no etiquette, no pleasantness.

I doubt doing this will get you any of the above. You can view things positively or negatively. From your record of number of posts, all you have done here in the forum is complain? I am not an experienced member here, I only joined months ago. However I find lots of threads NOT locked and the ones locked are crackpot (crackpot as in, since you are wondering, are contents that have no support beyond scientific standards). I feel welcomed to the forums and the moderators are friendly enough. Check yourself, lots of replies from the old hands to the new ones start with "Welcome to PF". I don't know what you are complaining about.

 

[berkeman]

I think that's a good post to end this thread with.