Help Deciphering Voltage-vs-time Graph

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the derivation of formulas that describe a voltage-vs-time graph. Participants explore how to interpret the graph segments and relate them to mathematical expressions for voltage, with implications for calculating current based on capacitance. The focus includes both conceptual understanding and practical application in homework problems.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Homework-related, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the formulas for different segments of the graph are derived, specifically asking about the role of the variable t in the expressions.
  • Another participant confirms that substituting specific values of t into the formulas yields correct voltage values, but does not clarify the underlying reasoning.
  • A participant attempts to calculate differences in voltage using the formulas but expresses uncertainty about the overall formula structure.
  • One participant suggests finding the slope of each segment to aid in deriving the equations, explaining how to account for offsets in the formulas based on starting voltage values.
  • Another participant proposes a quicker method for deriving the equations by recognizing the straight-line nature of the segments and using horizontal shifts in the equations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to derive the equations from the graph, but there is no consensus on the best method to achieve this. Multiple approaches are presented, and some participants express confusion about the formulas.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the formulas and their derivations, indicating that assumptions about the graph's structure and the relationships between voltage, time, and slope may not be fully resolved.

legatobluesummers
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Member advised to use the formatting template for all homework help requests
I'm asking how they managed to get those formulas to describe the graph.

a few of my homework questions rely on me being able to get the correct formulas from a graph like this. So i can then find the voltage and amperes in the questions. I'm just trying to understand how
50t represents 0 < t < 1
100 - 50t " " 1 < t < 3
-200 + 50t " " 3 < t < 4

edit: I'm supposed to take the derivatve of v (dv/dt) to get the voltage from the graph and then multiply it by the farads given to get amperesHow do these numbers make sense from the graph? I've thought until I can think no longer.
from 0 to 1, the difference is clearly 50, but why the t variable? 50*1 does equal 50.
from 1 to 3, the point 3 stops at -50, it's vertical magnitude is a negative 100, but it is written as 100-50t,
from 3 to 4, the total magnitude from 0 to 4 is 200, but why is it negative and the 50t positive?

surely there is something stupidly obvious I'm missing here.

help.png
 

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legatobluesummers said:
from 0 to 1, the difference is clearly 50, but why the t variable? 50*1 does equal 50.

That's right. Plugging 1 in for ##t## gives you 50*1 = 50 V.

legatobluesummers said:
from 1 to 3, the point 3 stops at -50, it's vertical magnitude is a negative 100, but it is written as 100-50t,

Plug in 3 to the formula and see what you get.

legatobluesummers said:
from 3 to 4, the total magnitude from 0 to 4 is 200, but why is it negative and the 50t positive?

Plug 3 and then 4 into the equation. You'll find that it precisely gives you that part of the graph.
 
assuming I'm going backwards for difference,
1) 50(1) - 50(0) = 50
2) 50(3) - 50(1) = 150 - 50
3) 50(4) - 50(3) = 200 - 150
i guess i don't know what the formula is
 
legatobluesummers said:
i guess i don't know what the formula is

I'm not sure what you're asking. The formulas for the voltage are given in the picture. Are you asking something else?
 
I'm asking how they managed to get those formulas to describe the graph.

a few of my homework questions rely on me being able to get the correct formulas from a graph like this. So i can then find the voltage and amperes in the questions. I'm just trying to understand how
50t represents 0 < t < 1
100 - 50t " " 1 < t < 3
-200 + 50t " " 3 < t < 4

edit: I'm supposed to take the derivatve of v (dv/dt) to get the voltage from the graph and then multiply it by the farads given to get amperes

help.png
 

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legatobluesummers said:
I'm asking how they managed to get those formulas to describe the graph.

Good question. The first thing I would do is find the slope for each part. This one is easy, as each part has a slope of either 50 or -50. From there it's just a matter of adding or subtracting the right numbers to make the equations fit the graph.

For part 1, the line starts at zero, so we don't need an offset at all. It's just 50t.
For part 2, the voltage starts at +50, so we need to take that into account in our formula. The slope is negative, so our ##t## variable will have a -50 in front of it. We have to add a number that makes -50t equal +50 at t=1, 0 at t=2, and -50 at t=3. So let's write a general formula:
##-50t+x=V##

Now write 3 equations using that general formula with the t variable replaced by 1, 2, and 3 and V replaced by 50, 0, and -50.

##-50(1)+x=50 → -50+x=50##
##-50(2)+x=0 → -100+x=0##
##-50(3)+x=-50 → -150+x=-50##

Solve for x:

##-50+x = 50 → x=50+50 → x=100##
##-100+x = 0 → x=0+100 → x=100##
##-150+x = -50 → x=-50+150 → x=100##

So ##x = 100##. Plugging that back into our general equation gives: ##-50t+100 = V##. Rearranging gives: ##100-50t=V##.
Notice that all three equations give us the same value for x. This means that you actually only need to solve the general equation for one value of t, not 3. Once you solve for one equation, you can put the value of x back into the general formula and plug in the other values of t if you want to check that it is correct.

Part 3 can be found using a similar method.
 
You are a gentleman and a scholar, thank you sir. I would have never figured that out while on tilt.
 
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Another method which you might find quicker (think exam time pressure) is to once again realize that each is a straight line segment with a given slope and that from functions 101 you can remember that to shift a line horizontally you subtract a constant offset from the "x" variable.

So for the second line segment, to shift where it passes through the t-axis, write:

##v(t) = -50 (t - 2) ## where the ##2## is the constant offset so that,
##v(t) = 100 - 50t##

Same goes for the third one where the offset would be 4 seconds.
 

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