Help in Newton's Laws of Rotation in Electric Motor and Electric Motor Dynamics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding Newton's Laws of Rotation in the context of electric motors and their dynamics, particularly focusing on the derivation and interpretation of related equations and models. Participants seek clarification on both mechanical and electrical aspects of motor dynamics, including state-space representation and differential equations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a desire to understand the meaning behind equations related to Newton's Laws of Rotation and their application to electric motors, indicating a gap in their current understanding.
  • Another participant requests clarification on the derivation of differential equations for motor and load models, highlighting their limited experience with mechanical modeling.
  • A participant explains the equation T = J \stackrel{..}{\theta} as analogous to F=ma for rotational systems, noting the substitution of moment of inertia for mass and angular acceleration for linear acceleration.
  • Discussion includes the role of back EMF in DC motors, with one participant explaining its significance in energy conversion and relating electrical power to mechanical output power.
  • One participant derives the relationship T=(VI)/w from the equations P=VI and P=Tw, questioning the implications of this relationship for the motor constant Km.
  • A later reply confirms the units of the DC motor constant and expresses a desire to improve mechanical modeling skills.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally share a common interest in understanding the underlying principles of motor dynamics, but there is no consensus on the interpretations or implications of the derived equations and constants.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of familiarity with the subject matter, indicating potential limitations in their understanding of mechanical modeling and the derivation of equations. Some assumptions about the relationships between electrical and mechanical parameters remain unexamined.

Who May Find This Useful

Students and professionals interested in electric motor dynamics, control systems, and the application of Newton's Laws in engineering contexts may find this discussion beneficial.

tehipwn
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Here is a copy of my notes on the motor. Basically it's just some of Newton's Law of Rotation combined with Kirchoff's Laws. Then we put the model into state space form.

Could someone just please explain to me the meaning of the equations? It's been a while since I've had physics. Thanks a lot for any help!

I would just love to be able to derive these equations instead of just copying them down, but they're not explained in my book.
 
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Sorry there must have been a problem with the image linking. I am putting it in an attachment instead.

A quick explanation of the motor and load models would be helpful.

In particular, I'm having problems understanding the derivations of the differential equations of the model. I'm an electrical engineer in school and have had little exposure to mechanical modeling. A thorough explanation of the differential equations would be appreciated. I understand how to put the equations in state-space form.

Thanks to all for looking.
 

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The equation [tex]T = J \stackrel{..}{\theta}[/tex] is basically just the equivalent of "F=ma" for rotational systems. Mass is replaced with "moment of inertia" (J) and acceleration is replaced by angular acceleration ([tex]\stackrel{..}{\theta}[/tex]).

The torque available for angular acceleration is equal to the electrical torque [itex]k_m \omega[/itex] minus the mechanical loss term [itex]B \omega[/itex]. That's pretty much all there is to the mechanical part of the model.
 
Re the electrical part of the system. Notice in the DC motor model there is a back EMF that is proportional to angular speed. This is actually where all the energy conversion takes place. The electrical power being absorbed by this back EMF is actually the raw mechanical output power. So just put together P=VI and T=P/w and you'll get the expression, [itex]T = k_m I[/itex], for the torque produced by the motor.
 
Thank you very much. That actually made it easy! It's just been so long since I've seen rotational motion that I forgot where the basis for the equations came from. But now I see [tex]T = J \stackrel{..}{\theta}[/tex] should be the starting point for rotational systems...High school physics, I know.

Using your equations, I put P=VI and P=Tw. Setting them equal yields VI=Tw meaning T=(VI)/w. Does that mean that Km=V/w? If so, what's the meaning of this?

Thanks.
 
I did a quick search of DC motor constant and found that the units can be V/rad/sec, so yes Km=V/w. This is for Advanced Control Systems by the way. I really like control systems but my mechanical modeling ability must be greatly improved.
 

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