Help Kathy Write a Book on Electricity & Tesla: What's Missing?

[Cool4Kat]

Hi I am writing a book on the history of electricity and I mention Tesla a bit but not a lot. I am worried that Tesla fans will be super angry with me because of it. So, I thought I would ask you nice folks what I should include.

I do have a section on the polyphase generator and motor and a bit about his interactions with Westinghouse.

I have a comment about how Marconi liked to steal things from others and that Tesla was a frequent victim.

What am I missing? I know he was prophetic (mentioning television in 1900 for example) but also often ignored for being strange and foreign. Because of that I feel like many people followed other scientists even if they discovered stuff way after Tesla did.

Anyway, thanks a lot

Kathy

 

[phinds]

Tesla is seriously overrated. I suggest a forum search where this has been discussed numerous times here one PF.

 

[phion]

It is written that Einstein was asked how it felt to be the smartest man on Earth, he replied, “I wouldn’t know. Ask Nikola Tesla”.

 

[phinds]

It is written that Einstein was asked how it felt to be the smartest man on Earth, he replied, “I wouldn’t know. Ask Nikola Tesla”.

WHERE is that written?

EDIT: here's what I found on the internet:

It is also rumored that when Einstein was asked how it felt to be the smartest man on Earth, he replied, “I wouldn’t know. Ask Nikola Tesla”. Given the nature of the relationship between Einstein and Tesla, it is assumed that if Einstein did indeed say those words, it would make sense that it was a sarcastic remark and not a compliment.

AGAIN: Tesla is seriously overrated. I suggest a forum search where this has been discussed numerous times here one PF.

 

[phion]

 

[phinds]

Yes, that's where I found the quote I posted. He mean it sarcastically if he said it at all. It's not in the letter you posted.

 

[phion]

Well, you're quick.

 

[dkotschessaa]

When did the whole "Tesla is the unsung hero of science" thing get so big? Seems to have resulted from a few internet memes and a webcomic iirc

 

[phinds]

When did the whole "Tesla is the unsung hero of science" thing get so big? Seems to have resulted from a few internet memes and a webcomic iirc

I think it started with one of those moronic pop-sci TV shows that decided that a hour long show praising him would sell soap but it may have begun as you suggest as an Internet meme. It's unfortunate that so many have been sucked in by it.

 

[phinds]

Well, you're quick.

That's not much of a response. The speed of my response is irrelevant. What is relevant is the content of my response and I notice you didn't comment on that.

 

[phion]

Yes, that's where I found the quote I posted. He mean it sarcastically if he said it at all. It's not in the letter you posted.

Obviously I was being sarcastic. Anyone who has read Qurora in the past 24 hours would see the humor in what I wrote. I don't read German, or whatever language is written in that letter I posted, and I didn't expect anyone else to be able to read the letter. You ruined the mystery of this thread. I hate you.

 

[john101]

He didn't seem particularly interested in personal wealth.
He was more of an engineer/inventor than a scientist like Einstein.
It's possibly easier to compare him with Edison.

 

[Evo]

Hi I am writing a book on the history of electricity and I mention Tesla a bit but not a lot. I am worried that Tesla fans will be super angry with me because of it. So, I thought I would ask you nice folks what I should include.

You might want to rethink Tesla,

Like any man, Tesla was far from perfect and sometimes had very warped ideas about how the world should operate. One of Tesla’s most disturbing ideas was his belief in using eugenics to purify the human race. In the 1930s, Tesla expressed his belief that the forced sterilization of criminals and the mentally ill — which was occurring in some European countries (most disturbingly Nazi Germany) and in many states in the U.S. — wasn’t going far enough. He believed that by the year 2100 eugenics would be “universally established” as a system of weeding out undesirable people from the population.

But again, his ideas were clear: the world should be rid of so-called undesirables. However unpleasant the idea of eugenics is to reasonable people on its surface, this notion seems particularly strange coming from a man like Tesla, whose own mental illnesses would have likely put him in the “undesirable” category under any authoritarian regime.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...t-eliminating-undesirables-by-2100-130299355/

 

[Charles Link]

Obviously I was being sarcastic. Anyone who has read Qurora in the past 24 hours would see the humor in what I wrote. I don't read German, or whatever language is written in that letter I posted, and I didn't expect anyone else to be able to read the letter. You ruined the mystery of this thread. I hate you.

I can read the German=I studied it in both high school and several college courses, and Einstein is wishing him continued success, (if I translated it correctly), and also does praise him for his remarkable success at explaining high frequency currents (again, if I translated it correctly). It is much clearer to read at the bottom where the handwritten message from above is typed out. Einstein does seem to be giving Tesla a fair amount of credit if the letter is authentic. editing... Einstein is also sending him birthday wishes for his 75th birthday. additional editing... A google shows Tesla was born July 10, 1856, so 75 years old would be correct for 1931... $\\$ Additional comment=I think there were probably quite a number of people who made very important contributions to the electromagnetic theory as we now know it that includes Maxwell's equations. Whether Nikolai Tesla was one of these major contributors, I haven't read enough historical accounts of the period from 1850-1900 to be able to make that determination...

 

[Cool4Kat]

See I feel like Tesla was overrated - loved for being so colorful and well crazy - but I was worried that he seems to be so damn popular these days. Seriously about 90% of the people that I tell that I am writing this book say "oh like Tesla?" It is very frustrating.

And no one has said Faraday! Or Volta or Galvani or JJ Thompson or Henry or ... grrr

 

[Cool4Kat]

But the polyphase generator and motor was v important.

 

[Evo]

Some Tesla myths debunked. http://www.edisontechcenter.org/tesladebunked.html

 

[dkotschessaa]

This was the comic I was referring to: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla

Is anything here factually incorrect?

Edit: will need to compare with Evo's link.

 

[David VH]

Some Tesla myths debunked. http://www.edisontechcenter.org/tesladebunked.html

What a fabulous article. The URL should give the bias away and it's full of unsubstantiated claims of its own, but it does show very well what the difference is between on one hand these two entrepreneurs (Edison & Tesla) who wanted to be heroes to the public and on the other hand the multitude of pioneering scientists who only wanted to be recognized by their peers.

This was the comic I was referring to: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla

Is anything here factually incorrect?

The Niagara Falls hydroelectric plant being the first of its type is false. Redlands 1893 is two years older. Possibly Tesla was involved in that one, but it's a factual error anyway.

Also that comic states Tesla as the "inventor of AC", which is mostly false I think, he identified AC as a technology with huge potential and set about promoting it and making it more practical. But AC research was not a field he started. This parallel may be a stretch, but saying Tesla invented AC would be far more wrong than saying Schrodinger invented quantum mechanics...

 

[Cool4Kat]

Tesla is seriously overrated. I suggest a forum search where this has been discussed numerous times here one PF.

I only found one PF discussion when I searched and it was, like this one, split pretty evenly between those that think Tesla is a god and Edison is a scoundrel ^{✱✱edited by moderator} and those that think the reverse.

 

[shintashi]

Things you might want to address on Tesla, if you can find photos/diagrams and/or news articles.
* an electric car
* the remote control boat used at the world's fair (you definitely want to mention that and his hydroelectric dam work at Niagra)
* Radar and his work for the navy
* and the strange experiments in Colorado
*radio wars with marconi

those 5 are probably the most interesting, but if you're bored, you can look into his experiments with X Rays, Magnification, or Rocket Fuel

I think Tesla is over rated in all the wrong areas, and the stuff that made him amazing is completely glossed over.
Incidentally, almost no scientific body today has an unbiased opinion of Tesla. That includes whatever pets you might have, like those affiliated with the Smithsonian, Edison, JP Morgan, and Westinghouse. Not to mention all the fans of Marconi. The only accurate things to say are that he had a lot of enemies, and Edison invented the electric chair to make him look bad. Oh, and the origin of the Brooklyn Dodgers is in there somewhere too.

 

[Aufbauwerk 2045]

Tesla may or may not be overrated, but that is just opinion. I think the important thing is that some scientists are still studying his patents, and even coming up with apparatus to test these patents. I think there is value in studying the inventions of Tesla, as long as we stick to the scientific method.

 

[RonL]

See I feel like Tesla was overrated - loved for being so colorful and well crazy - but I was worried that he seems to be so damn popular these days. Seriously about 90% of the people that I tell that I am writing this book say "oh like Tesla?" It is very frustrating.

And no one has said Faraday! Or Volta or Galvani or JJ Thompson or Henry or ... grrr

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Inventions,_Researches,_and_Writings_of_Nikola_Tesla

From the two links above are many hyper-links that lead to much documented information.

Overview
"Written in 1893, the book is a record of Tesla's pioneering activities, research, and works.[2] Tesla is recognized as one of the foremost electrical researchers and inventors.[3] At the time of publication, the book was the "bible" of every electrical engineer practicing the profession.[4][5] The book contains Forty-three chapters, most of them on different areas of Tesla's research and inventions by Tesla. The first chapter is a brief biography while three chapters are transcripts of important lectures and one covers his section of Westinghouse's exhibit at the Chicago World's Fair

Martin stated that, "No attempt whatever has been made here to emphasize the importance of his researches and discoveries".[6] The ideas and inventions are conveyed in their own way, determining by their own place by intrinsic merit. But with the fact that Tesla blazed a path that electrical development would later follow for years to come,[7][8] the compiler of the book endeavored to bring together all of Tesla's work up to that point in Tesla's life.[2] Aside from indicating the range of his thought and originality of his mind,[9] the book has historical value because it describes the scope of Tesla's early inventions." ...(Tesla is about 37 at this time)

There was almost no mention of Tesla, anywhere, as recent as 1995 ? At which time the PC allowed the writings and research of several people to reveal the man that money-mongers had tried to eradicate (Tesla wanted his work to be mostly free to everyone, which does not set well with money and power people).
There is a lot of overrated hype, but there is as much or more truth to his brilliance.
If you have good reason to put in the effort, you will find his patents reflect his work and not the copying of others.

 

[phinds]

There was almost no mention of Tesla, anywhere, as recent as 1995 ? At which time the PC allowed the writings and research of several people to reveal the man that money-mongers had tried to eradicate (Tesla wanted his work to be mostly free to everyone, which does not set well with money and power people).

Seriously? This is wacko conspiracy theory at its worst.

 

[RonL]

Seriously? This is wacko conspiracy theory at its worst.

All I know is this information was almost impossible to find in 1995 ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla_Museum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Science_Center_at_Wardenclyffe

http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/contents.htm

http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1917-05-08.htm

I think one has to be careful as to information sources, but some of these are pretty impressive (at least to me)
Based on all the nay-sayers, I would put him in with Clinton and Trump as to what you want to believe...

 

[phinds]

All I know is this information was almost impossible to find in 1995 ?

There was a HUGE amount of information about all kinds of things that was not easily available before the internet. From that you conclude that "money-mongers had tried to eradicate" him? That's what I think is just a silly conspiracy theory.

 

[Charles Link]

There was a HUGE amount of information about all kinds of things that was not easily available before the internet. From that you conclude that "money-mongers had tried to eradicate" him? That's what I think is just a silly conspiracy theory.

The information that @RonL found is quite interesting. Like @phinds I also discount any "conspiracy" theories. There tends to be a "following" that has the idea that science is inherently dishonest=that we already have automobiles that can get 200+ miles per gallon, etc. This is where too many of the Tesla supporters seem to come from. From the "links" that @RonL provided, it does appear that Tesla may have come up with many remarkable inventions, perhaps some before others came up with similar things. In general, the people of science are those who have both a curiosity about the things and like solving puzzles. They don't spend a lot of time wondering if things would be much different and far simpler if governments an/or people in power would allow things to progress.

 

[berkeman]

Just a friendly Mentor reminder that we do not discuss (or debunk) conspiracy theories here on the PF. Thanks.

 

[john101]

I did a search (duck duck go) for 'origin of bias'. Interesting. Seems there is no readily available research or hypothesis on it.

It seems there are currently two major schools of thought on Tesla. He was a brilliant Innovator/Inventor/Engineer and he was not. It seems both of these pov's are argued in an atmosphere of bias.

 

[collinsmark]

All I know is this information was almost impossible to find in 1995 ?

I don't understand. Nobody who's studied the field of electricity and electrical engineering would argue that Nikola Tesla did not make significant contributions to the field. The SI unit of magnetic flux density is named after him after all. Of course he made significant contributions.

Finding information on Telsa before 1995 was no more difficult than finding information on, say, Marie Curie or Blaise Pascal. Nobody was keeping secrets.

 

[phinds]

... Nobody was keeping secrets.

Exactly. I've never understood how people come up with these wacko conspiracy theories about how the government (or just "THEY") not wanting us to know stuff. Anyone who thinks the government can keep that kind of secret just isn't paying attention.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Tesla and Edison were magicians; prestidigitators, who both discovered that actual working inventions, if sufficiently amazing, were vastly more effective for advancing their careers than mere illusions of the Houdini type. You won't really understand them unless you see them both in terms of their showmanship and their rivalry as competitors for center stage as the most amazing inventor/showman.

Tesla courted the press and spent an inordinate amount of time giving interviews. He had an effective and persuasive way of talking about himself in such a manner that he cast himself as a genius without ever seeming to have done so. Most of the legends about Tesla circulating today can be traced back to Tesla, himself.

 

[berkeman]

Thread closed for Moderation...

 

[berkeman]

Thread re-opened after some pruning. Please remember to post mainstream references for any claims that you are making about these people. Thank you.

 

[jim hardy]

Tesla and Edison were magicians; prestidigitators, who both discovered that actual working inventions, if sufficiently amazing, were vastly more effective for advancing their careers than mere illusions of the Houdini type.

Tesla was Westinghouse's resident genius.

Hi I am writing a book on the history of electricity and I mention Tesla a bit but not a lot. I am worried that Tesla fans will be super angry with me because of it. So, I thought I would ask you nice folks what I should include.

Don't forget about GE's Steinmetz. He made Tesla's motor and transformer practical by figuring out the iron parts. Curiously, i went through an EE curriculum in 1960's without hearing of Steinmetz.. My mentor's pre WW2 books were full of references to him but he wasn't even in my 60's textbook indexes.
So we ordered his biography, "Modern Jupiter" which was for some reason published by ASME not IEEE.
That book described Steinmetz's politics as a 'devout socialist' ,
which made me wonder if he was written out of postwar texts in the postwar anti-communist frenzy . That time period sparked Orwell's "1984". If you remember that book, protagonist's job was rewriting historical records to reflect politics du jour.
The McCarthy hearings and Arthur Miller's "The Crucible" were also products of the period.
I guess we'd have to find a textbook editor of the day to know for sure ?

What were Tesla's political leanings? I have no idea.
I'd think you would want to read a good biography about him and find whatever of his letters you can.
I saw a TV documentary about him that suggested he became so erratic Westinghouse fired him, and when he'd declined into poverty they sustained him as a matter of corporate conscience.
Can you bring his character to life with anecdotes ?
He might have been the archetypal "Doc Brown".

Might be interesting to compare their personalities. Both were "different " .

old jim

 

[Mark44]

Don't forget about GE's Steinmetz.

I remember reading about Steinmetz for a book report in about 9th grade or so (about 1959). The book I read was surely published after WW II, so I don't believe Steinmetz was "written out of history."

 

[jim mcnamara]

Heck, in ~4th grade, about 1953, I remember reading a story about Steinmetz reassembling a shattered mirror.
From http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/charles-proteus-steinmetz-the-wizard-of-schenectady-51912022/ :

One Friday afternoon in 1921, Steinmetz hopped in his electric car and headed off for a weekend at Camp Mohawk, where he’d built a small house overlooking Viele Creek. When he arrived he’d discovered that lightning had damaged the building and shattered a large silver glass mirror. He spent the entire weekend painstakingly reconstructing the mirror, placing the slivers between two panes of glass. Once assembled, he studied the pattern and was convinced that the shattered mirror revealed the lightning’s path of electrical discharge. Back at General Electric, he brought in a gigantic apparatus, then another. There were thunderous crashes at odd hours of the night. The city was abuzz with speculation. What exactly was the Wizard of Schenectady doing in Building 28?

In March of 1922, reporters were invited to General Electric and gathered before a model village that Steinmetz had constructed. In a noisy and explosive demonstration witnessed by Edison himself, Steinmetz unveiled a 120,000-volt lightning generator. With a showman’s flourish, he flipped a switch and produced lighting bolts that splintered large blocks of wood, decimated the steeple on a white chapel and split a miniature tree. Reporters were awestruck. The following day, a headline in the New York Times proclaimed, “http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F40717FD34541B7A93C1A91788D85F468285F9.” Steinmetz’s work led to the measures used to protect power equipment from lightning strikes.

If I read this in the early 50's in The Weekly Reader there must have been no information vacuum about the man.

 

[jim hardy]

Thanks guys for the Steinmetz references. I must've been just unlucky to miss him.

Those experiments jim mcnamara described inspired the title of his biography "Modern Jupiter".

old jim

 

[zoobyshoe]

Tesla as Prestidigitator:

http://www.thechristianidentityforum.net/downloads/Tesla-Time.pdf

Just read chapter 1, The Modern Prometheus

An invitation to his lab was an invitation to a magic show. He gave many public "lectures" during his career that were essentially the same kind of show.

 

[Teslascience]

You might want to rethink Tesla,

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...t-eliminating-undesirables-by-2100-130299355/

Hi,
Yes Tesla was for eugenics. But to understand this you need to know Tesla himself and his time too.
Tesla was the perfect scientist, the living thinking machine. Please read NT: My Inventions and pick up his philosophy how the human thinking and action works through subliminal messages.
In his time eugenics was an advanced scientific theory which tryed to determine how the world need to progress in the future. Of course his followers doesn't understand the working of this world. :)

 

[Charles Link]

Instead of trying to pick up on past scientists and things they might have done or didn't do that may have been ahead of their time, what really matters is what we are able to do in the present. Whether that is the arithmetic that a second grader does, or more advanced mathematics and physics, in many ways, it is a very similar process. Even basic arithmetic, and advancing to fractions and division and multiplication, can be quite fascinating. I once had a professor in college tell us that he "does not worship gods", referring to other mathematicians and physicists, some of whom were semi-famous, and who had something of a following. It's more important what we as individuals are able to do. Hopefully this wasn't too far off topic, but it is how I feel about whether it's Newton, or Tesla, or anybody else.

 

[DennisN]

Tesla is seriously overrated.

I second that.

When did the whole "Tesla is the unsung hero of science" thing get so big? Seems to have resulted from a few internet memes and a webcomic iirc

This is something I've wondered about too. And there is something about Tesla and some of his admirers that give me the feelings of cult and cult followers (which makes me cringe and shiver ).
And hearing about Tesla makes me reach for... (link)

 

[Averagesupernova]

I think the fascination with Tesla started way before the internet. I first noticed it 25 years ago. I have a number of books on Tesla and his work and what I have noticed is a general tendency towards a "poor us/poor me" attitude.
-
I have ALWAYS thought he was pretty much a nut. Numerous times I have referred to "Tesla worshipping fools". Surprisingly, when I google that phrase with quotes, there is only one hit.
-
Edit: My bad, two hits.
-
https://www.google.com/search?ei=WqKQWpm2N8nNjwT1go7gCA&q="tesla+worshipping+fools"&oq="tesla+worshipping+fools"&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i160k1.7648.8480.0.8742.2.2.0.0.0.0.99.191.2.2.0...0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.91...0.-FO1_aFN4pQ

 

[Bandersnatch]

I once had a professor in college tell us that he "does not worship gods", referring to other mathematicians and physicists, some of whom were semi-famous, and who had something of a following. It's more important what we as individuals are able to do. Hopefully this wasn't too far off topic, but it is how I feel about whether it's Newton, or Tesla, or anybody else.

But there's literally a Tesla in the sky! Born of immaculate design in a plant here on Earth, it lived among the people before ascending to on high, carried by three burning angels.
Praise be.

 

[RonL]

If one looks at the number of patents filed by N Tesla, it might be possible Einstein had to work on a good number of them, hard for anyone not to be impressed in my opinion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

 

[Teslascience]

Instead of trying to pick up on past scientists and things they might have done or didn't do that may have been ahead of their time, what really matters is what we are able to do in the present. Whether that is the arithmetic that a second grader does, or more advanced mathematics and physics, in many ways, it is a very similar process. Even basic arithmetic, and advancing to fractions and division and multiplication, can be quite fascinating. I once had a professor in college tell us that he "does not worship gods", referring to other mathematicians and physicists, some of whom were semi-famous, and who had something of a following. It's more important what we as individuals are able to do. Hopefully this wasn't too far off topic, but it is how I feel about whether it's Newton, or Tesla, or anybody else.

Human knowledge generally but especially scientific knowledge developing itself through the cooperation of the individual followers. It’s a team game of centuries. My favorite metaphor in this line was used by Newton:
” If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.”
Befor we can do anything in science we must know the history of the field of investigation. So the very first thing we shall do is learning the works of scientists befor us. But this is just a little part of our tasks. We shall know also why and how a theory was developed what was the philosophy, the logic behind it, to be able as individuals continue that work or starting an another one. And befor we starting to think consciously about something we shall know also our own capabilities fg. how our mind works through subliminal messages, how our mind solves problems etc. but this to discuss would be off this topic.
I agree, we shall not worship anybody but we shall know the works of men of science especially if they had done great work and had brilliant ideas and minds. :)

 

[scott mcfee]

Hmm. Here is my 2 cents. I think we must look at Tesla in his time. Not ours. Look at his patents. Look at the people who cannot duplicate what he did. Look at what HE DID IN HIS TIME.Look at the people who lie about him.Look at the people who stole from him. Look at who profited from his expertise. I am not sure what the truth about him is. I am sure NO ONE has told the truth about him.So sad.

 

[russ_watters]

Hmm. Here is my 2 cents. I think we must look at Tesla in his time. Not ours. Look at his patents. Look at the people who cannot duplicate what he did.

Well, you said we should judge him in his time and then almost immediately judged him against today. So here's both, separately:

1. There is little doubt that in his time he was a cutting-edge genius inventor.
2. What he did then is not cutting-edge today.

Don't mistake the fact that people can't duplicate his efforts to mean he was ahead of where we are today. Even Tesla fans know that he was secretive, disorganized and a terrible communicator. We can't duplicate what he did simply because he didn't tell us!

 

[jim hardy]

Being gifted is no guarantee against getting obsessive and going 'off the deep end' . Westinghouse surely didn't fire him without a reason. .

 

[phinds]

... I am not sure what the truth about him is. I am sure NO ONE has told the truth about him.So sad.

Scott, a ridiculous set of conspiracy theories have grown up around Tesla and that statement by you seems to indicate that you have been sucked in by them. I suggest you read this entire thread and check out some of the links, particularly the degugging link posted by Evo in post #17