Help understanding about wavelength

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter anhnha
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Wavelength
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of wavelength, particularly in relation to sinusoidal waves and the implications of using sinusoidal voltage sources in wave propagation. Participants explore the definitions and characteristics of waves, including non-sinusoidal waveforms and their relationship to sinusoidal components.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that a sinusoidal voltage source is necessary to create a sinusoidal wave in space.
  • Others explain the relationship between wavelength, frequency, and speed of propagation, noting that wavelength multiplied by frequency equals the phase velocity of the wave.
  • A participant seeks confirmation about the behavior of voltage at a distance from a sinusoidal source over time, questioning if it remains constant.
  • Some participants express confusion about why all waveforms are considered sinusoidal, questioning the definition of wavelength for non-sinusoidal signals.
  • One participant introduces the concept of Fourier series, suggesting that any arbitrary waveform can be decomposed into a sum of sinusoidal waves, which simplifies analysis.
  • Another participant emphasizes that while any wave has a period, sinusoids are the simplest waveforms from which other waves can be constructed.
  • A later reply discusses the limitations of determining wavelength from non-sinusoidal sources, highlighting the relationship between frequency and wavelength through the wave equation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the nature of waveforms and the implications of using sinusoidal sources. There is no consensus on the necessity of sinusoidal waves or the definition of wavelength for non-sinusoidal signals, indicating ongoing debate and exploration of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the complexity of analyzing non-sinusoidal waveforms and the potential challenges in defining wavelength in those cases. The discussion reflects a range of assumptions about the nature of waveforms and their mathematical representations.

anhnha
Messages
179
Reaction score
1
Hi,
I want to ask one question about wavelength. Here is a picture defining wavelength.
To get a sinusoidal wave in space, we have to use a sinusoidal voltage source at transmitter, right?
I mean if there is a sinusoidal voltage source at the transmitter to create a sinusoidal wave in space.
attachment.php?attachmentid=62766&stc=1&d=1381499112.png
 

Attachments

  • wavelength.PNG
    wavelength.PNG
    9.7 KB · Views: 605
Science news on Phys.org
Yes, where T is the period of the wave, f=1/T is the frequency, and lambda is the wavelength.

Note that wavelength x frequency = speed of propagation for the wave. This is the phase velocity.
 
Thank you, I wanted to know that to confirm my understanding about how wave propagating in space. For example,
there is a sinusoidal voltage source at transmitter and speed of propagation for the wave is v (m/s), the direction in which the wave moves is z.
Say, at t=0, the voltage at the source is 2V then at t=1s, at the point A that is v(m) away from the source in z direction, the voltage will be 2V, right?
 
If you are looking at an oscilloscope your phase will repeat in time steps of T=period of the wave=1/f.

Not sure what distance you are interested in here ...
 
I don't understand why the waveform in all wavelength are all sinusoidal. What shape of wave in space if the signal generated at transmitter is not sinusoidal? And then how we can definition wavelength in this case?
 
anhnha said:
I don't understand why the waveform in all wavelength are all sinusoidal. What shape of wave in space if the signal generated at transmitter is not sinusoidal? And then how we can definition wavelength in this case?

You could define terms like wavelength for a lot of non-sinusoidal waves, however there's a reason we usually focus on sinusoids. Fourier series/transform theory tells us that we can take any arbitrary wave and write it as a sum of sinusoidal waves. For example, a 2 Hz triangle wave can be written as a sum of 2 Hz, 4 Hz, 6 Hz, 8 Hz, etc. sinusoidal waves.

Rather than analyzing any arbitrary waveform (which may be messy and hard to understand), the easiest approach for a lot of problems is to break up an arbitrary non-sinusoidal waveform into sinusoidal components, analyze those components individually, and then add everything back up to get your result. It sounds like more work, but if you take a course on signal processing you'll quickly see the advantage. So basically, rather than study every kind of possible wave (assigning them wavelengths and what-not), we study sinusoids in great detail because we know that once we understand sinusoids, we can use that knowledge to understand a wide range of other types of waves.

Edit: by the way, you're right that a non-sinusoidal source would produce a non-sinusoidal wave. Your voice, for example, is a non-sinusoidal sound wave. However, like I explained above, it's usually much easier to describe your complicated vocal signal by breaking it down into sinusoidal waves rather than trying to analyze it directly.
 
Any wave has a period; you simply note when the wave repeats itself ...

But the simplest waveforms are sinusoids; you can build any wave from a collection of sinusoids - though it may take be a very large number, and sharp edges won't reproduce exactly.
 
anhnha said:
Thank you, I wanted to know that to confirm my understanding about how wave propagating in space. For example,
there is a sinusoidal voltage source at transmitter and speed of propagation for the wave is v (m/s), the direction in which the wave moves is z.
Say, at t=0, the voltage at the source is 2V then at t=1s, at the point A that is v(m) away from the source in z direction, the voltage will be 2V, right?

If you look at the signal that's producing the wave (say, the signal from a tone generator, fed to a loudspeaker, waggling a string - and not necessarily a sinusoid, say a sawtooth waveform or perhaps a square wave) with an oscilloscope, you cannot know the wavelength - only the variation of the volts with time. A freeze frame photo of the wave on the string would have a similar shape, only this time the variation would be with distance, rather than in time. You would not know the frequency from that picture; it will show the wavelength. The relationship between the frequency, seen on an oscilloscope (number of cycles per second) and the wavelength (spacing between similar points on the wave), multiplied together, will give you the speed of the wave. That's how frequency and wavelength relate to each other (the so called 'wave equation').
See this link.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
488
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K