Highest Order Diffraction Ring

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the behavior of diffraction rings in crystal structures, particularly regarding the maximum order of diffraction as described by Bragg's Law. Participants explore the implications of large angles on the validity of the law and the role of reciprocal lattice concepts in understanding diffraction patterns.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the maximum order of diffraction, n, can be derived from the equation nλ = 2dsinθ, suggesting that n is limited by the angle approaching 90 degrees.
  • Others question whether Bragg's Law holds at large angles and what phenomena may occur when it breaks down.
  • One participant emphasizes that Bragg's Law is a crude approximation and introduces the concept of the reciprocal lattice, noting that the d-spacing relates to reciprocal lattice vectors and that reflections depend on the structure factor.
  • There is a discussion about the existence of certain reflections based on the structure factor, with examples from diamond structures illustrating that not all reflections are allowed.
  • Some participants assert that there is no fundamental limit to n in principle, but practical limits arise from the wavelength and the geometry of the crystal planes.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of structure factors being zero for certain conditions, which could affect the observed diffraction peaks.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of Bragg's Law at large angles and the implications of reciprocal lattice concepts. There is no consensus on the maximum order of diffraction or the effects of structure factors on observed reflections.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the application of Bragg's Law, particularly regarding the assumptions made about angles and the nature of crystal planes. The dependence on the structure factor and the conditions under which certain reflections may or may not exist are also noted as critical factors in the analysis.

Willfrid Somogyi
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So we have the standard diffraction equation for crystals, being: nλ = 2dsinθ. If we keep the wavelength and the lattice parameter the same then n simply depends on θ. So there must be a maximum order diffraction ring that you could obtain as once you get to 90° you're essentially going in the opposite direction with the same angles you've already covered.

Intuitively you'd think to just rearrange to find the maximum n as n = (2dsin90°)/ λ or n = 2d/λ. But my question is, would you begin to get weird effects from the "slits" in planes below that would change this result?
 
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You basically want to know if the Bragg's Law holds for large angles.
 
Willfrid Somogyi said:
So we have the standard diffraction equation for crystals, being: nλ = 2dsinθ. If we keep the wavelength and the lattice parameter the same then n simply depends on θ. So there must be a maximum order diffraction ring that you could obtain as once you get to 90° you're essentially going in the opposite direction with the same angles you've already covered.

Intuitively you'd think to just rearrange to find the maximum n as n = (2dsin90°)/ λ or n = 2d/λ. But my question is, would you begin to get weird effects from the "slits" in planes below that would change this result?
The maximum order n is the maximum integer that is less than ## 2d/\lambda ##. This will normally occur at some angle close to 90 degrees, i.e. perpendicular to the crystal planes. If you choose ## \lambda>2d ## then you don't get any Bragg maxima. The angles only go from 0 to 90 degrees. The incident angle measured from the normal to crystal planes is ## \theta_i=90-\theta ##. I believe in Bragg scattering, you need to locate the peaks by rotating the crystal w.r.t. the source. Once you find an orientation of the crystal that gives a maximum, you then find the location where the scattered UV is going. Two conditions are satisfied for Bragg scattering: 1) The angle of incidence=angle off reflection off of the individual parallel planes 2) The spacing between the crystal planes must satisfy the Bragg condition, i.e. ## n \lambda=2d \sin \theta ## where ##n ## is an integer so that the reflected waves off of all of parallel (and equally spaced) crystal planes constructively interferes.
 
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Simon Bridge said:
You basically want to know if the Bragg's Law holds for large angles.
Yeah, that's a much simpler way to put it but I was also wondering if anyone could tell me what happens after Bragg's law breaks down
 
Bragg's law written as nλ = 2dsinθ is really a quite crude approximation. For a more systematic approach to the problem you have to understand the concept of the reciprocal lattice. The "d-spacing" in Bragg's law is the inverse of the length of a reciprocal lattice vector Q, usually written with its Miller indices (H,K,L). A basic rule of the reciprocal lattice is that multiples of a reciprocal lattice vector (n*Q) are again reciprocal lattice vectors. Hence the "n" in Bragg's law.
It is much more systematic to identify, say, a (333) reflection as (333) instead of 3*(111), because the strength of a reflection depends on the structure factor. In some cases the structure factor can be zero, then the reflection does not exist. For example in the diamond structure (111) exists and is a nice, strong reflection, but (222) is forbidden, whereas (333) and (444) exist again. No in principle there is no fundamental limit to "n". In practice, however, there is a lower limit for λ, and with λ = 2dsinθ/n this gives an upper limit for n - or more precisely the length of the reciprocal space vector Q=d/n.
 
M Quack said:
Bragg's law written as nλ = 2dsinθ is really a quite crude approximation. For a more systematic approach to the problem you have to understand the concept of the reciprocal lattice. The "d-spacing" in Bragg's law is the inverse of the length of a reciprocal lattice vector Q, usually written with its Miller indices (H,K,L). A basic rule of the reciprocal lattice is that multiples of a reciprocal lattice vector (n*Q) are again reciprocal lattice vectors. Hence the "n" in Bragg's law.
It is much more systematic to identify, say, a (333) reflection as (333) instead of 3*(111), because the strength of a reflection depends on the structure factor. In some cases the structure factor can be zero, then the reflection does not exist. For example in the diamond structure (111) exists and is a nice, strong reflection, but (222) is forbidden, whereas (333) and (444) exist again. No in principle there is no fundamental limit to "n". In practice, however, there is a lower limit for λ, and with λ = 2dsinθ/n this gives an upper limit for n - or more precisely the length of the reciprocal space vector Q=d/n.
For a given UV wavelength as the source, there will be an upper limit for the "n", as described in post #3. Once you locate a Bragg peak for a given wavelength (with some integer "n"), you can always take shorter wavelengths of integer multiples "m"(with no limit on the integer multiple m) and those will also give a Bragg peak (as you correctly describe in your posting). Please correct me if it is not the case, but I think the structure factor that you get in the reciprocal lattice formulation is "q" dependent. When you get a structure factor that is nearly 0 (for some q that satisfies the Bragg condition), that usually would imply that there is a second plane of identical atoms equally spaced so that you would find a Bragg peak at the same angle for "2q" which is one-half the wavelength (as well as any integer multiples of 2q.). Although for more detailed and precise calculations the solid state experimentalists use the reciprocal lattice formulation, the atomic plane model gives a fairly accurate description of Bragg scattering.
 
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