How a vol. integral becomes a vol. integral plus surface integral

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of integration by parts and the divergence theorem in the context of volume integrals and surface integrals. Participants are exploring how these mathematical tools relate to a specific example presented in a PDF document.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the application of integration by parts in a specific context, referencing a PDF document.
  • Another participant explains a generalization of the fundamental theorem of calculus, relating volume integrals to surface integrals.
  • A participant acknowledges understanding of the divergence theorem but notes the presence of two terms in their example, questioning its applicability.
  • Some participants assert that the divergence theorem and integration by parts can be applied together to relate the integrals in question.
  • There is a request for clarification on what the scalar function corresponds to in the example, specifically regarding the term 1/|r-r'|.
  • Clarifications are provided regarding the scalar function and the differential volume element in the context of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the application of the divergence theorem in the specific example, as some express confusion while others assert its validity. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact nature of the terms involved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in understanding the specific application of the divergence theorem and integration by parts, as well as the definitions of the terms involved in the example.

tom8
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Hello,

Please see this pdf at some universities website:

http://physics.ucsc.edu/~peter/110A/helmholtz.pdf

In line 14 the author claims using integration by parts...I do not understand
who could the integration by parts be used here.

I understand the general case where we have der(a*b)=a der(b) + b der(a)

but I am not able to see how this happened here..

Thanks!
 
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You use the fact that, for example, for scalar [itex]\psi[/itex] and vector [itex]C[/itex],

[tex]\int \nabla (\psi C) dV = \oint \psi C \cdot dA[/tex]

This is a generalization of the fundamental theorem of calculus, and it's used even in the 1D case:

[tex]\int_a^b u v' \; dx + \int_a^b u' v \; dx = \int_a^b (uv)' \; dx = uv|_a^b[/tex]
 
I understand the divergence theorem, but in my example I have two terms on the right, one of which is a surface integral and one is vol. integral. Thus this cannot be div. theorem.
 
It's the divergence theorem and integration by parts (or the product rule).

[tex]\int \nabla(\psi C) \; dV = \int C \cdot \nabla \psi \; dV + \int \psi \nabla \cdot C \; dV = \oint \psi C \cdot dA[/tex]
 
Muphrid said:
It's the divergence theorem and integration by parts (or the product rule).

[tex]\int \nabla(\psi C) \; dV = \int C \cdot \nabla \psi \; dV + \int \psi \nabla \cdot C \; dV = \oint \psi C \cdot dA[/tex]

Perfect, can you tell me what do psi corresponds to in my example?

Does correspond only to the rational (1/|r-r'|) or tothe rational and to d3r' ?
 
[itex]\psi[/itex] is only the scalar function [itex]1/|r-r'|[/itex]. Their [itex]d^3r'[/itex] is [itex]dV[/itex].
 
Muphrid said:
[itex]\psi[/itex] is only the scalar function [itex]1/|r-r'|[/itex]. Their [itex]d^3r'[/itex] is [itex]dV[/itex].

Now I got it. It is two steps at once, thank you so much !
 

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