How Are Gravitational Waves Connected to Black Holes?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between gravitational waves and black holes, particularly focusing on the mathematical derivation of this connection within the framework of General Relativity. Participants express interest in understanding how perturbations to black holes lead to the generation of gravitational waves, referencing recent observations of black hole mergers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that gravitational waves are emitted when a black hole's horizon symmetry is perturbed, such as during a merger of two black holes.
  • One participant mentions Price's Theorem as a mathematical result that relates to the radiation of gravitational waves from black holes with "hair".
  • Another participant questions the completeness of the radiation process, suggesting that a black hole may never fully lose its "hair" if it radiates at an exponential rate.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of quantum gravity on the concept of "hair" and whether it plays a role in the arguments presented.
  • Some participants reference specific papers, including the LIGO detection paper, as relevant resources for understanding the gravitational wave generation from black holes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of Price's Theorem and the nature of gravitational wave radiation. There is no consensus on whether a black hole can completely lose its "hair" in finite time, and the role of quantum gravity remains a point of contention.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the understanding of gravitational wave generation and the mathematical underpinnings of the no-hair theorem, particularly in the context of classical versus quantum gravity. Some assumptions about the behavior of black holes under perturbations are not fully resolved.

leo.
Messages
90
Reaction score
4
This is something I've been curious for some time. I've heard that there is a relation between gravitational waves and black holes. Moreover, this year the quite important paper "Observation of Gravitational Waves from a Binary Black Hole Merger" was published.

Now, I'm starting to study General Relativity and I want to understand better the relation between gravitational waves and black holes from a more rigorous standpoint. In truth I would like to get to some mathematical derivation of that relation. Something that starting from black hole mathematics we end up showing there is a gravitational wave generation.

Is there some paper about that out there? I've been searching for this in the last few days but didn't find anything. I believe this might be in the context of the Kerr black holes as it is the one related to rotation as far as I know. Any paper is appreciated!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Heuristically, the relationship between gravitational waves and black holes is that, any time something happens to a black hole that perturbs the symmetry of its horizon, the hole will radiate gravitational waves until the horizon's symmetry is restored. Note that this applies to any black hole, not just a rotating (Kerr) one. The black hole merger that was recently detected by LIGO is one example of something that perturbs the symmetry of a hole's horizon--the merger creates a larger hole whose horizon is asymmetrical, because the two holes that merged to form it were not identical and were not moving in perfectly symmetrical orbits around their common center of mass before they merged. So gravitational waves are produced by the merger.

The general mathematical result underlying the above is called Price's Theorem; it is described briefly on the Wikipedia page for its discoverer, Richard Price:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_H._Price

The more general property of black holes that describes what "symmetrical" means is the "no hair theorem"; Price's Theorem shows us that gravitational waves are a way that a black hole that has "hair" because of something that just happened to it radiates away the "hair". But different kinds of "hair" correspond to different kinds of radiation; for example, a hole that has a magnetic field because of something that just happened to it will radiate it away as electromagnetic waves, not gravitational waves. There has been plenty of study of the general "no hair" theorem, and you should be able to find papers on that topic; but I don't know that many of them will talk about gravitational waves specifically.
 
leo. said:
This is something I've been curious for some time. I've heard that there is a relation between gravitational waves and black holes. Moreover, this year the quite important paper "Observation of Gravitational Waves from a Binary Black Hole Merger" was published.

Now, I'm starting to study General Relativity and I want to understand better the relation between gravitational waves and black holes from a more rigorous standpoint. In truth I would like to get to some mathematical derivation of that relation. Something that starting from black hole mathematics we end up showing there is a gravitational wave generation.

Is there some paper about that out there? I've been searching for this in the last few days but didn't find anything. I believe this might be in the context of the Kerr black holes as it is the one related to rotation as far as I know. Any paper is appreciated!

I'd suggest reading the LIGO paper https://dcc.ligo.org/public/0122/P150914/014/LIGO-P150914_Detection_of_GW150914.pdf

In particular, the section of the paper that talks about why it is felt that the gravity wave came from the inspiral of a pair of black holes, rather than some other source (such as a neutron star and a black hole) seems relevant to your question.

The basic features of GW150914 point to it being produced by the coalescence of two black holes.
...
A pair of neutron stars, while compact, would not have the required mass, while a black hole neutron star binary with the deduced chirp mass would have a very large total mass,and would thus merge at much lower frequency.
 
PeterDonis said:
Price's Theorem shows us that gravitational waves are a way that a black hole that has "hair" because of something that just happened to it radiates away the "hair".
I never understood the argument really. Assuming pure (not quantum) GR, if the hole is ratiating hair at exponential rate, it will never radiate them completely! So this is rather the argument that once the hole got hair, it will have them forever (shrinking exponentially though, but never reaching zero anyway).

Is quantum gravity also a part of this argument? Don't physicists add something like "fluctuations hit the Planck size at some point and then they vanish"?

Let me ask again: does pure non-quantum general relativity say that a hairy hole loses all hair completely in finite time?
 
haael said:
Assuming pure (not quantum) GR, if the hole is ratiating hair at exponential rate, it will never radiate them completely!

Do you mean "radiate at an exponentially decreasing rate"? AFAIK that's not what GR predicts. But you would probably have to dig into the literature to see the detailed math; I don't know that this subject is treated in detail in textbooks. (Price's Theorem hadn't been discovered yet when MTW was published, IIRC, and I don't remember Wald discussing it in any detail.)

haael said:
Is quantum gravity also a part of this argument?

No. Quantum "hair" is a separate issue--I believe there are some quantum analogues of no-hair theorems, but I don't think it's as clear cut as it is in pure classical GR.

haael said:
does pure non-quantum general relativity say that a hairy hole loses all hair completely in finite time?

As best I understand it, yes.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
590
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
  • · Replies 43 ·
2
Replies
43
Views
5K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 43 ·
2
Replies
43
Views
6K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
2K