How big is the cheating problem at US uni's

[Pengwuino]

I have to say that in my two years here at this university, I've seen dozens and dozens of acts of cheating! So a couple of questions: How much cheating tends to go on at your average university? Is there an appreciably lower level of cheating at big name universities?

 

[JasonRox]

Cheating is pretty bad here too.

I doubt cheating is lower at a larger more reputable school. It's probably even worse.

I've read articles about "Cheating Rings" and I think that's as bad as it gets. That's like ultimate cheating because it is something that's done until you graduate basically. So you cheated to get your degree! That's far worse than cheating to pass a test or some assignment.

 

[heman]

Well in my college no one has guts to cheat..and so too i,,last year the guy who was sitting just a step ahead to me ,,,turned his head to see in the nextguy's answerbook and couldn't get even a glimpse..he did it just once and unfortunately proff. saw him...

He was terminated..

And so i think this way that whatever be the case one shouldn't cheat..

 

[mattmns]

I don't think it is a big problem at all, at least at my university.

 

[Physics is Phun]

Well, I don't really know what you mean by BIG problem. No one (that I know) at my school cheats on thing like midterms or finals or major assignments, but on things like weekly homework, everyone just does those together and copies off each other if they can't get it themselves.

 

[topsquark]

Well, I don't really know what you mean by BIG problem. No one (that I know) at my school cheats on thing like midterms or finals or major assignments, but on things like weekly homework, everyone just does those together and copies off each other if they can't get it themselves.

BAD problem? I think as it's pretty Universal any effects average out. I always told my students that if you were stupid enough to let me catch you that I would come down hard on you. Generally that seemed to do it for most people. (I DID manage to catch a few, but it was minor, ie. homework, stuff and I simply embarassed them. Then there was the one that handed in the lab report on the lab that had been discontinued the previous semester, but with the data for the lab from the current semester. I had fun with that guy! )

I think the main problem isn't so much the cheating as the attitude behind the cheating. Most people have cheated (copied) at least once in their life and I think it's merely a bi-product of stress and the (mostly correct, if philosophically unsound) thought of "it doesn't really matter for this instance anyway." Most people will feel at least a little guilty about doing it. It's the ones that make a casual habit out of it that I tend to go after. These are the ones that seem to think they actually deserve the results without the effort and have no guilt at all. Fortunately I haven't seen too many of those. In terms of these people I would say that most places I've taught at/attended don't have that big a problem.

-Dan

 

[Pengwuino]

I don't think it has anything to do with stress. They just want to get something for nothing. For example in my chemistry lab, people were looking at hte instructors answer-key for our qualitative analysis while talking about the next concert they're going to go out to see that weekend (or for 2 people's case, the beach they were going to that weekend).

The unfortunate thing is that, for example at my university, it happens so often (and there's probably such a change of litigation) that they don't do anything. I've been in about 5 conversations with professors and TA's where they were talking about how people cheat and how blatant it is and would actually know exactly who is doing the cheating. They never seem to do anything about it so i suspect they fear litigation more then anything.

 

[0TheSwerve0]

No cheating at my previous school - it had the great books program and class consisted of discussion, essay writing, and talks with your tutors (aka professors). Anyone who didn't talk during class, and who had horrible essays was given the boot. There simply wasn't a way to cheat.

 

[Dagenais]

last year the guy who was sitting just a step ahead to me ,,,turned his head to see in the nextguy's answerbook and couldn't get even a glimpse..he did it just once and unfortunately proff. saw him...
He was terminated..

His Professor can't prove that he was cheating. If he was smart, he wouldn't have been "terminated."

Is turning your head against the law at your school? Are you required to stay perfectly still? Did he sign a contract that said movement wasn't allowed while in class?

 

[0TheSwerve0]

btw, I really don't care if people cheat, even to get degrees. If a piece of paper helps them, good for them. I think we should just have alternative trade schools like Germany and Japan, let's not waste people's time if they aren't interested in academics. Or, how about a discussion oriented class, where you can't cheat? School systems have set up the environment for cheating, so maybe they should change that. Besides, somewhere down the line, if they need to display the skills they should have according to their degree, they'll get there comeuppance. As far as I know, it doesn't have serious effects on anyone else. Am I wrong?

 

[Pengwuino]

The problem is if people are cheating their way to 4.0s, they get the scholarships, they get grad schools, they get the honors.

 

[0TheSwerve0]

hard to get by in grad school if you cheat. I guess cheaters really could be that stupid...

 

[Pengwuino]

Well a 4.0 and deans list would probably make up for a not so great GRE score for example. They won't be getting into princeton but it's one less spot at a lower-level grad school for someoene who worked hard and just can't cut it at a princeton or harvard.

 

[0TheSwerve0]

Yeah, that would suck. Still, BSing is a good skill to have in this country.

 

[Pengwuino]

yah people BS'ing their BS.

 

[Rach3]

yah people BS'ing their BS.

Well you know what BS stands for right? So then there's MS, and Ph.D.

:uhh:

 

[Tony11235]

I don't think it has anything to do with stress.

I kind of disagree. Say you've been working on a programming assignment for days now, and you have less than an hour before it's due yet you still can't get it to run correclty or produce the right results. Is it ok to borrow code from friends to see how their's works? Or should you just turn in what you have an earn a D on the assignment?

 

[Ratzinger]

I once heard that in Stanford there are no supervisor in the room when tests are written.

 

[sid_galt]

I read somewhere (I think on caltechs website) that caltech students are allowed to take their tests in their dorm rooms if they want. Its part of their Honor Code.

 

[heman]

His Professor can't prove that he was cheating. If he was smart, he wouldn't have been "terminated."

Is turning your head against the law at your school? Are you required to stay perfectly still? Did he sign a contract that said movement wasn't allowed while in class?

Actually there were cameras in the room..and yeah he was given full authority to speak and meeting was conducted..but everything was classified.

and a very similar rule,if it is found that the assignment is copied ,the person will be failed in that course...so here students don't submit if they don't know,,they can't even think of copying..

and one more rule is that if student scores consecutively in 2 semesters less than 4.5 /10 gpa,,inst. doors will be opened for him..do American universities have similar rule..

 

[Moonbear]

I kind of disagree. Say you've been working on a programming assignment for days now, and you have less than an hour before it's due yet you still can't get it to run correclty or produce the right results. Is it ok to borrow code from friends to see how their's works? Or should you just turn in what you have an earn a D on the assignment?

I guess you're using the word stress differently than I would, but the situation you describe is when a lot of cheating occurs...it's out of desperation. The student who is about to fail gets desperate enough to cheat when they really have nothing to lose if they'll get kicked out anyway. In all the years I've been teaching, I've only caught one student cheating on an exam by copying off a neighbor. In the end, that student was let off the hook by the academic integrity panel, because apparently an instructor's word is not good enough (and the course coordinator didn't want to submit the exam as evidence because then it would be publicly available and she coudln't use the same exam questions again :grumpy:), but I hope just being dragged through that process was enough to convince that student to never attempt cheating again.

 

[Pengwuino]

I kind of disagree. Say you've been working on a programming assignment for days now, and you have less than an hour before it's due yet you still can't get it to run correclty or produce the right results. Is it ok to borrow code from friends to see how their's works? Or should you just turn in what you have an earn a D on the assignment?

Well if your assignment is so bad that your going ot get a D on it instead of the more realistic B, then you deserve a D. If you feel the instructors policy is unfair, get a new one or take issue with it. Plus your argument is a rare instance. If you cheat once a year, it's not a problem to speak of. What I'm talking about is the people who cheat on a weekly if not daily basis. I doubt people find themselves in that situation on a weekly basis... and if they do find themselves in that situation on a weekly basis, i have a feeling they don't deserve a good grade in the first place.

 

[Pengwuino]

I guess you're using the word stress differently than I would, but the situation you describe is when a lot of cheating occurs...it's out of desperation. The student who is about to fail gets desperate enough to cheat when they really have nothing to lose if they'll get kicked out anyway. In all the years I've been teaching, I've only caught one student cheating on an exam by copying off a neighbor. In the end, that student was let off the hook by the academic integrity panel, because apparently an instructor's word is not good enough (and the course coordinator didn't want to submit the exam as evidence because then it would be publicly available and she coudln't use the same exam questions again :grumpy:), but I hope just being dragged through that process was enough to convince that student to never attempt cheating again.

I disagree here as well, it is raaaaarely out of desperation. Except of course, if by desperation you mean the homework being due the next day and you haven't even looked at the material because you were off at a club or partying or messin around on myspace. Cheating probably takes place at a much larger rate then you suspect. Now that technology is so freely available, you have so many methods of cheating. One of our professors was reporting that students (multiple, >5 in one testing) were using blackberry's to cheat on a biology test. It's rather unfortunate that people just cheat their butt's off and professors rarely notice it. Then again I've talked to some of my professors and they say they've seen it and just don't do anything about it.

I dunno, i raaaaarely buy the "i'm stressed" bs coming from some people because usually they say that after talking about the latest stupid social function they did/attended that weekend. It's rare to really be THAT busy unless you were foolish in your scheduling or aren't being realistic with your abilities.

 

[Tony11235]

I guess you're using the word stress differently than I would, but the situation you describe is when a lot of cheating occurs...it's out of desperation. The student who is about to fail gets desperate enough to cheat when they really have nothing to lose if they'll get kicked out anyway. In all the years I've been teaching, I've only caught one student cheating on an exam by copying off a neighbor. In the end, that student was let off the hook by the academic integrity panel, because apparently an instructor's word is not good enough (and the course coordinator didn't want to submit the exam as evidence because then it would be publicly available and she coudln't use the same exam questions again :grumpy:), but I hope just being dragged through that process was enough to convince that student to never attempt cheating again.

The cheating situation you just described only seems to happen in very large "101" classes, where everybody has to sit somewhat close to each other. I don't see how students would do this in higher level math, physics, and computer science courses. Most of my professors have us set our bags somewhere far from where we are sitting and make sure that students are seated far enough apart.

As for homeworks, a lot of students, especially when time is running out, often will google for posted online homework and test solutions from other universities. You'll be surprised what you can find.

 

[Tony11235]

Well if your assignment is so bad that your going ot get a D on it instead of the more realistic B, then you deserve a D. If you feel the instructors policy is unfair, get a new one or take issue with it. Plus your argument is a rare instance. If you cheat once a year, it's not a problem to speak of. What I'm talking about is the people who cheat on a weekly if not daily basis. I doubt people find themselves in that situation on a weekly basis... and if they do find themselves in that situation on a weekly basis, i have a feeling they don't deserve a good grade in the first place.

I see what you mean.

 

[Moonbear]

I disagree here as well, it is raaaaarely out of desperation. Except of course, if by desperation you mean the homework being due the next day and you haven't even looked at the material because you were off at a club or partying or messin around on myspace. Cheating probably takes place at a much larger rate then you suspect. Now that technology is so freely available, you have so many methods of cheating. One of our professors was reporting that students (multiple, >5 in one testing) were using blackberry's to cheat on a biology test. It's rather unfortunate that people just cheat their butt's off and professors rarely notice it. Then again I've talked to some of my professors and they say they've seen it and just don't do anything about it.

I dunno, i raaaaarely buy the "i'm stressed" bs coming from some people because usually they say that after talking about the latest stupid social function they did/attended that weekend. It's rare to really be THAT busy unless you were foolish in your scheduling or aren't being realistic with your abilities.

Um...yeah, that actually is part of what I meant. It's self-imposed in most cases, true.

Why are students allowed to have Blackberries with them during the exam? It sounds like part of the problem is the conditions in your classes make it too easy to get away with it, which gives more people the chance to do it. When I give exams, especially in large classes where cheating is likely (yes, Tony, the problem is more rampant in the 101 level classes, and less of a problem in the smaller, upper level classes where you don't have to rely on multiple choice exams and the students aren't crammed on top of each other), the students are allowed to bring a couple pencils (yep, you have to watch how many and if they start "fidgeting" with them after every question), an eraser, a watch without any "gadgets" on it, and their student ID. If I can't write the questions in a way that uses easy numbers to work with by hand, they can bring a non-programmable calculator.

Everything else must be put into a closed bag under their seat. Cell phones off, crackberries off, PDAs off...the room should be quiet...and all those things go into the closed bag. I've had students try to argue they need the clock on their cell phone, at which time I point out they should have brought a regular watch and then show them where the room clock is if they need it. An old trick was to bring a soda can or water bottle with answers written on the label, so no beverages either.

The most annoying part of it is having to make 4 or 5 different versions of the exam so nobody is within view of anyone else with the same version, so they can't just copy the answers.

It gets easier in the upper level courses. You can't really cheat your way through an essay exam.

I don't grade homework assignments (at least not since being a TA when I had to follow other people's rules in the courses I taught). I think students get more out of the homework when it isn't graded, because they aren't as likely to just copy it from someone else if they know it doesn't count for anything other than their own learning. I prefer short quizzes to test the knowledge they should have obtained from doing their homework instead. The quizzes will never make or break their grade, it just helps keep them on track and gets them used to my question style and provides them feedback on the level of their knowledge before they get to the midterm exams.

Overall, though, I'm not greatly worried about it because as soon as the students get out of the 101 level courses with multiple guess exams, they will either have the necessary knowledge base for their upper level courses, or they won't. If they cheated their way through all the 101 courses, they'll flounder in the 200, 300, or 400 level courses where you can't cheat your way through problem-based exams.

 

[Pengwuino]

The students were't suppose to have blackberries. They were suppose to do the whole closed backpack nothing on at your seat things.

I suppose in the end, you're right that they will end up getting stuck at the upper division level. Suckers. And they say making it in the real world is hard.

 

[Pyrrhus]

Interesting... I guess cheating is a problem everywhere, but in my opinion the amount of cheating depends on the teacher. For example, On my Hydrology course there were 2 sets of exam, one theory and the other practice, so you couldn't use palms, TIs, HPs, formula sheets, or whatever to copy... Yea sure some people will try to get out their small piece of papers, but who can't notice them?, the teachers can. Of course there are exceptions like the small transparent sheets some people were using, you couldn't see them unless you were pretty close. I guess cheating methods are progressing :rofl:.


Another anti-cheating method I've seen used, It's dividing the class in two or more subsections for taking the finals. Of course the teacher has to work more, he/she has to make more different tests. Talking about different tests, some teachers make even 4 or 5 versions for a final.


In reality the amount of teaching depends on the teacher, sure you can't counter it all, but you can make it damn hard for the cheaters.
Of course, I've cheated in the past, but lesson learned. What matters is what you learned not your grade (well, maybe a little :rofl:)