How can we find the curvature of a star or planet?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around methods to determine the curvature of celestial bodies, specifically stars and planets, and whether they are spherical or disk-shaped. It explores theoretical and observational approaches to this problem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a non-rotating star would appear as a plane circular face, questioning how to determine its curvature or shape.
  • Another participant asserts that sufficiently large celestial bodies are spherical due to self-gravity, referencing external sources.
  • A different viewpoint challenges the assumption that gravity alone can confirm a body's spherical shape, introducing the concept of centrifugal force potentially affecting the shape.
  • Participants propose using Doppler shift from rotation as a method to differentiate between spherical and flattened stars, although one argues that this may not be effective in certain observational scenarios.
  • Laser range finders and observations of phases are suggested as methods to create a 3D map of a moon's surface, which could help infer curvature.
  • Another participant questions how to distinguish between a slowly rotating star and a rapidly rotating one that appears circular when viewed along its axis, emphasizing the limitations of Doppler shift in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the influence of gravity and centrifugal force on the shape of celestial bodies. There is no consensus on the effectiveness of proposed methods for determining curvature, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of differentiating between various shapes and rotational states of celestial bodies, indicating that assumptions about gravity and rotation may not be universally applicable.

Tahmeed
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Suppose we are watching a star that is spehrical. But we will see its one face that is toward us(suppose its not rotating). We will see that face to be plane circular. Is there any way we can find the curvature? or tell if its spherical or disk shaped ?
 
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You mean we can't use the existence of gravity to infer that it's spherical? (have you been arguing with flat-earthers?:nb))

In that case, Doppler shift from rotation would give the easiest clue - note that pretty much the only case where it would not be rotating is for a tidally-locked moon.

And since in the case of a moon it's a close-by reflective solid body, you could use laser range finders (different return trip times for light signals aimed at different spots) to build a 3D map.
Observations of phases would work too (the varying curvature of terminator).

Another method for the star that would point to its spherical shape is to measure light reflected off of other planets at a range of times - a disc would not shine equally in all directions, so the amount of light reflected (after correcting for phases) would differ depending on the position of the planet w/r to the star.
Once you know it's spherical, the curvature from the observed disc gives the overall curvature.
 
DrClaude said:
Any sufficiently big celestial body will be spherical due to self-gravity
No, it won't.
Centrifugal force can resist gravity no matter how big the body may be.

How can we tell a difference between a star which is not rotating or slowly rotating, and which therefore is spherical, and a star which is rotating rapidly and strongly flattened, but which we are observing along its axis and which therefore looks perfect circle?
Doppler shift will not help. The pole we are looking at is not moving, and the equator at the edge of the disc is moving rapidly but neither towards nor away from us, so no Doppler shift.
 
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snorkack said:
No, it won't.
Centrifugal force can resist gravity no matter how big the body may be.

How can we tell a difference between a star which is not rotating or slowly rotating, and which therefore is spherical, and a star which is rotating rapidly and strongly flattened, but which we are observing along its axis and which therefore looks perfect circle?
Doppler shift will not help. The pole we are looking at is not moving, and the equator at the edge of the disc is moving rapidly but neither towards nor away from us, so no Doppler shift.

Exactly. Then what is the procedure? ?
 

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