How did Meitner calculated the amount of energy lost....

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the calculations performed by Lise Meitner regarding the energy lost during the nuclear fission of uranium, specifically how she applied the equation E=mc² to determine the mass lost in the process. Participants express curiosity about the mathematical process behind these calculations, referencing a video and historical context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses a desire to understand the calculation of energy loss during uranium fission, noting that the video does not provide the mathematical details.
  • Another participant suggests that Meitner likely calculated the mass lost by subtracting the mass of the fission products from the mass of the original uranium nucleus and then applying E=mc².
  • Some participants mention that Meitner indicated the two resulting nuclei are lighter than the original uranium nucleus by about one-fifth of a proton in mass, implying a straightforward calculation once this mass defect is known.
  • There is confusion regarding the terminology used by Meitner, with one participant questioning the phrase "packing fraction calculation" and expressing uncertainty about its meaning.
  • One participant references historical documents related to the discovery of nuclear fission, including a letter from Otto Hahn to Meitner, which adds context to their discussion about the calculations and the scientific process at that time.
  • A participant mentions having performed their own calculation, arriving at a specific energy value based on fission products, and offers to provide further details if requested.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the basic premise of how Meitner calculated the energy loss, but there is uncertainty regarding specific terminology and the historical context of the calculations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise details of the calculations and the terminology used.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express limitations in their understanding of the historical context and the specific calculations performed by Meitner, indicating that the details of how mass defect was determined are still unclear to them.

Peter Ke
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It's my first time here, so I'm not sure if this is the right place to post it. If I post it in the wrong section, then I'm sorry.

Anyways, I just have a curious question. Based on this video I watched --> ""

at around 1:40:42 , I really want to know how she actually calculated the amount of energy lost during the nuclear fission of the uranium atom by using E=mc^2. I'm just curious that's all because the video doesn't show the actual calculation. So, if one of you guys can show the process of the mathematics, that would be great!

Thx!
 
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She says what calculation she's doing, but I can't understand it with her accent. Somehow she's calculating how much mass is lost in the fission process, perhaps by knowing the mass of the uranium and the products and simply subtracting. Then you just plug that number into e=mc^2. Here's an example:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/higher/physics/radiation/nuclear_reactions/revision/2/
 
She says clearly that the two nuclei (produced in the fission) are lighter than the original nucleus of uranium by about 1/5 of the proton in mass. When you know this number it is just plug and chug
 
Borek said:
She says clearly that the two nuclei (produced in the fission) are lighter than the original nucleus of uranium by about 1/5 of the proton in mass.
Yeah - it was what she said right before that, before she calculated that result that I couldn't understand. Sounds like "let me do a packing friction calculation", but I don't think that's right...
 
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russ_watters said:
Yeah - it was what she said right before that, before she calculated that result that I couldn't understand. Sounds like "let me do a packing friction calculation", but I don't think that's right...
LISE MEITNER: "Wait, let me do a packing fraction calculation. The two nuclei are lighter than the original uranium nucleus by about one-fifth of a proton in mass".
[ref: Nova transcript]

I can't find the original letter that sparked the conversation, sent on 19 December, 1938, but I did find the paper published a few months later:

Concerning the Existence of Alkaline Earth Metals Resulting from Neutron Irradiation of Uranium
published 6 January 1939

I'm afraid I can't follow it.

Wiki gives a clue:
Otto Hahn, Discovery of nuclear fission
Further refinements of the technique, leading to the decisive experiment on 16–17 December 1938 (the celebrated "radium-barium-mesothorium-fractionation"), produced puzzling results: the three isotopes consistently behaved not as radium, but as barium. Hahn, who did not inform the physicists in his Institute, described the results exclusively in a letter to Meitner on 19 December: "...we are more and more coming to the awful conclusion that our Ra isotopes behave not like Ra, but like Ba. ... Perhaps you can suggest some fantastic explanation. We ourselves realize that it can't really burst into Ba." In her reply, Meitner concurred that Hahn's conclusion of the bursting of the uranium nucleus was very difficult to accept, but considered it possible.
On 22 December 1938, Hahn sent a manuscript to Naturwissenschaften reporting their radiochemical results, which were published on 6 January 1939.

I knew the theory behind mass defect, but not the history of its discovery.
Very interesting.
But how they determined the details, is still beyond me.
 
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Borek said:
She says clearly that the two nuclei (produced in the fission) are lighter than the original nucleus of uranium by about 1/5 of the proton in mass. When you know this number it is just plug and chug

I plugged and chugged and came up with 169 mev, based on wiki's most convenient: U236 fission into Ba141 + Kr92 + 3 Neutrons image

Specifics available upon request. :angel:

---------------------
[edit]
And given that I'm prone to forgetting where everything is:
file: pf.random.homework.problems.numbers
tab: fission of U236
 

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