How do magnetic fields curve spacetime?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between magnetic fields and the curvature of spacetime, exploring theoretical implications, mathematical formulations, and potential applications. Participants raise questions about the effects of magnetic fields in various contexts, including current-free regions, the stability of orbits, and the feasibility of generating artificial gravity through magnetic fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a magnetic field in a current-free region of curved spacetime satisfies Laplace's equation or if adjustments are necessary.
  • Another participant references the Einstein-Maxwell equations, suggesting they include the stress-energy tensor of a pure electromagnetic field and the source-free Maxwell equations.
  • There is a query about the strength of a magnetic dipole required to create stable orbits for nearby objects.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the existence of naturally occurring magnetic fields strong enough to cause orbits without additional matter.
  • Concerns are raised about whether humans can generate magnetic fields strong enough to produce observable gravitational effects, with differing opinions on the feasibility of creating artificial gravity fields.
  • Another participant notes that for a magnetic field to be considered pure, a specific frame must be chosen, indicating that the Laplace equation may not be applicable in all contexts.
  • One participant emphasizes that magnetic fields produced by animals are negligible in the grand scale of the universe.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the ability of humans to generate significant magnetic fields and the implications of such fields on spacetime curvature. There is no consensus on the existence of naturally occurring magnetic fields capable of causing orbits without additional matter, nor on the necessary conditions for magnetic fields to satisfy specific equations in curved spacetime.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations regarding the applicability of the Laplace equation in non-flat metrics and the need for specific frames when discussing magnetic fields. The discussion also reflects uncertainty about the strength of magnetic fields required for observable gravitational effects.

vibe3
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According to the Einstein field equations, matter and energy both curve spacetime. I'm wondering how magnetic fields contribute to the curvature of spacetime. I have a few questions:

1. Does a magnetic field in a current-free region of a curved spacetime still satisfy Laplace's equation? Or is there an adjustment needed to Laplace's equation?

2. If there is a magnetic dipole sitting in space, how strong would it need to be to create stable orbits for some object nearby?

3. Do there exist any naturally occurring magnetic fields in the universe strong enough to cause something to orbit it without additional matter?

4. Can humans generate magnetic fields strong enough to cause observable gravitational effects, ie an artificial gravity field?

5. Does there exist a nice solution for the metric due a general potential magnetic field? I did a literature search but only found specialized solutions for Swarzschild/Kerr metric with a magnetic dipole.
 
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PeterDonis said:
Take a look at the Einstein-Maxwell equations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_field_equations#Einstein.E2.80.93Maxwell_equations

They are the Einstein Field Equation including the stress-energy tensor of a pure electromagnetic field (i.e., no charges or currents present) plus the source-free Maxwell Equations.

I'm aware of them and a better discussion is here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell's_equations_in_curved_spacetime

I'm hoping an expert can let me know if a non-flat metric will cause a B field to satsify some other equation than Laplace. From staring at the equations for D^{\mu\nu} and J^{\nu} on that page, it seems that perhaps the answer is yes, but I'd like someone with more knowledge to chime in.

If B satisfies a different equation, I'd appreciate any links to solutions or further discussion
 
vibe3 said:
4. Can humans generate magnetic fields strong enough to cause observable gravitational effects, ie an artificial gravity field?
I call a NO on that one.
All animals have a nerve system which involves tiny electrical currents, and therefore tiny magnetic fields.
Can a human generate a magnetic field similar to that produced by the the supercooled magnets used by the LHC?
No, although evidence to the contrary would be very interestng.
 
rootone said:
I call a NO on that one.
All animals have a nerve system which involves tiny electrical currents, and therefore tiny magnetic fields.
Can a human generate a magnetic field similar to that produced by the the supercooled magnets used by the LHC?
No, although evidence to the contrary would be very interestng.

I don't understand the analogy - we wouldn't need to generate a complex field, a simple dipole field, of sufficient strength would probably cause enough curvature of spacetime to cause observable gravitational effects no?
 
vibe3 said:
I'm hoping an expert can let me know if a non-flat metric will cause a B field to satsify some other equation than Laplace.

For the field to be a pure B field you have to choose a particular frame; the Laplace equation isn't covariant to begin with.
 
vibe3 said:
Can humans generate magnetic fields strong enough to cause observable gravitational effects, ie an artificial gravity field?

To answer this, look at typical components of the stress-energy tensor of the EM field and compare them to typical energy densities for, say, a planet.
 
vibe3 said:
Do there exist any naturally occurring magnetic fields in the universe strong enough to cause something to orbit it without additional matter?

AFAIK no, not even close.
 
vibe3 said:
I don't understand the analogy - we wouldn't need to generate a complex field, a simple dipole field, of sufficient strength would probably cause enough curvature of spacetime to cause observable gravitational effects no?
Magnetic fields produced by any animal on Earth are of no consequence to the Universe.
Just don't go swimming in seas with high voltage eels/.
 
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rootone said:
Magnetic fields produced by any animal on Earth are of no consequence to the Universe.
Just don't go swimming in seas with high voltage eels/.
Inconceivable!
 
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