How does ALFC and AVR maintain grid frequency and voltage in power systems?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the roles of Automatic Load Frequency Control (ALFC) and Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR) in maintaining grid frequency and voltage in power systems. Participants explore the effects of changes in real and reactive power on these controls, particularly in the context of generator operation and the implications of frequency reduction on terminal voltage.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that ALFC and AVR are crucial for maintaining grid frequency and voltage, noting that real power affects frequency while reactive power affects voltage.
  • One participant questions whether a reduction in frequency affects terminal voltage and if AVR responds to such changes, suggesting that generated emf is proportional to the speed of rotation.
  • Another participant confirms that AVR measures terminal voltage and responds to reactive power changes, mentioning a reactive droop setting that allows for parallel operation of plants on the grid.
  • Concerns are raised about over-fluxing in generators, with a participant sharing an anecdote about a past incident where improper voltage indication led to equipment failure, emphasizing the importance of volts/hz measurement and limiting.
  • Participants express appreciation for shared practical experiences, highlighting their value in understanding complex concepts beyond theoretical knowledge.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of ALFC and AVR in managing grid stability, but there are ongoing questions regarding the specific responses of AVR to frequency changes and the implications of over-fluxing, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved in certain aspects.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the operation of ALFC and AVR may not be fully explored, and the discussion includes anecdotal evidence that may not represent broader operational norms.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and professionals in electrical engineering, particularly those interested in power systems, grid management, and the practical implications of voltage and frequency control mechanisms.

cnh1995
Homework Helper
Gold Member
Messages
3,489
Reaction score
1,163
ALFC and AVR are used to maintain grid frequency and grid voltage constant w.r.t. changes in real and reactive power. Real power has a direct effect on frequency while reactive power has a direct effect on the grid voltage.

Consider a power system running at normal grid volage with rated freauency of 50Hz, with generators equipped with AVR and ALFC. If the load demand increased, the primary ALFC loop will operate (free governor operation) and governor will increase the mechanical input according to its % droop. Let's say the new frequency settles down to 49.7Hz. Then central LFC will send signal to the generator's speed changer and its reference power setting will be increased by a suitable amount, which will bring back the frequency to 50Hz (for the increased demand).

But before the central LFC changes the reference power setting of the generator, the generator is operating at reduced frequency (49.7Hz) for some time (small time).

Does this reduction in frequency affect terminal voltage? Generated emf in the generator is proportional to the speed of rotation. Will the reduction in frequency reduce the terminal voltage? Does AVR respond to this change? Or does it only operate during reactive power changes in the system?
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
cnh1995 said:
Does this reduction in frequency affect terminal voltage? Generated emf in the generator is proportional to the speed of rotation. Will the reduction in frequency reduce the terminal voltage? Does AVR respond to this change?

Yes to all. AVR measures machine terminal voltage.

cnh1995 said:
Or does it only operate during reactive power changes in the system?
AVR measures machine current too, so will respond to reactive power.
There's a reactive droop setting on AVR so that you can operate plants in parallel on the grid and they'll share reactive load gracefully.
Ours were set to give ~5% reactive droop.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: cnh1995
cnh1995 said:
Generated emf in the generator is proportional to the speed of rotation. Will the reduction in frequency reduce the terminal voltage?

That's why most AVR's have a volts/hz measurement and a volts/hz limiter .
Volts per hz is flux and overflux can melt the stator iron. That happened to us once, before the machine was synchronized to the line. Something had gone wrong with the voltage indication. Operators noticed it was taking too many field amps to make normal voltage, and there was no way to know which of the meters was wrong. About the time they decided to shut back down and investigate , the machine shut itself down . Molten iron was running out the end.http://www.ccj-online.com/guard-against-over-fluxing-ensure-proper-generator-protection-maintenance/

Missteps conducive to over-fluxing. Almost without exception, over-fluxing occurs when the field is applied, but before the machine is synchronized to the grid. Reason: Once the breaker is closed, increasing field current mainly increases VAr loading, while mildly increasing the terminal voltage.
An old-timer from GE told me it happens someplace in the world about once a year .
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: cnh1995
jim hardy said:
That's why most AVR's have a volts/hz measurement and a volts/hz limiter .
Volts per hz is flux and overflux can melt the stator iron. That happened to us once, before the machine was synchronized to the line. Something had gone wrong with the voltage indication. Operators noticed it was taking too many field amps to make normal voltage, and there was no way to know which of the meters was wrong. About the time they decided to shut back down and investigate , the machine shut itself down . Molten iron was running out the end.http://www.ccj-online.com/guard-against-over-fluxing-ensure-proper-generator-protection-maintenance/An old-timer from GE told me it happens someplace in the world about once a year .
This is really helpful! Especially that link related to the physics of overfluxing. It's really great to learn from a man with so much knowledge and practical experience in EE.
I will study more about AVRs and will post if anything is unclear.

I can't thank you enough @jim hardy!
 
No cnh, the Thanks are due you, for tolerating my boring anecdotes.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: cnh1995
jim hardy said:
for tolerating my boring anecdotes.
Not boring at all. In fact, your anecdotes are always interesting.
Practical experiences like that are very important, especially for a student like me who has worked only on limited lab machinery and some simulations. I have learned much more from you than from my textbooks or lectures.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
6K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
2K
  • · Replies 46 ·
2
Replies
46
Views
7K
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
Replies
18
Views
2K