How Does Aligning Water Dipoles Affect Surface Charge Density?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of surface charge density resulting from the alignment of molecular dipoles in water. Participants explore the relationship between molecular dipoles and surface charge density in the context of water's properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss methods for calculating surface charge density, including the number of water molecules per area and the dipole moment of water molecules. Questions arise about the validity of assuming a fixed number of electrons per molecule and the relationship between polarization and surface charge density.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants questioning initial assumptions and exploring different methods to calculate the surface charge density. Some guidance has been provided regarding the use of polarization and the need to determine the volume density of water molecules.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific concepts from their textbook, including the permanent dipole moment and the relationship between dipole moment and polarization. There is mention of needing to calculate the number of water molecules based on mass density and molar mass.

ResonantW
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Homework Statement


Imagine that all the molecular dipoles in a cup of water could be made to point down. Calculate the magnitude of the resulting surface charge density at the upper surface of the water, and express it in electrons per square centimeter.


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


Can I just find the number of water molecules per square centimeter of area, knowing the approximate size of an H2O molecules, and then say that since all the dipoles point down we will have 2 electrons for every such molecule along the surface?
 
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I think you should approach it from the ideas developed in chapter 10. The text gives you the permanent dipole moment, p, of a water molecule. It also explains how to go from dipole moment per molecule to the polarization P. From P you can get the surface charge density. :smile:
 
Got it! Why wouldn't the first method work?

Also, do I know the volume density of water molecules, because that would be what Purcell calls N, correct?
 
ResonantW said:
Got it! Why wouldn't the first method work?

I don't think you can assume two electrons per molecule. The effective surface charge per surface molecule would depend on the amount of polarization of each molecule, p .
Also, do I know the volume density of water molecules, because that would be what Purcell calls N, correct?

Right. You'll need to determine N, the number water molecules per cm3. See if you can calculate it from the mass density of water and the molar mass of water.
 
I get that P= 6e22 esu/cm^2. Is that equivalent to the surface charge density?

I can also express this as 1.3e32 electrons per square centimeter.
 
ResonantW said:
I get that P= 6e22 esu/cm^2. Is that equivalent to the surface charge density?

I can also express this as 1.3e32 electrons per square centimeter.

I think you overlooked the caption for Fig. 10.14 which states that the dipole moments given in the figure are in units of ##10^{-18}## esu-cm. Otherwise, looks good.
 

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