How Does EMF Induce in a Solenoid Despite Minimal Flux Cutting?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the induction of electromotive force (EMF) in solenoids and transformers, particularly focusing on the conditions under which EMF is generated despite minimal magnetic flux cutting through the windings. Participants explore theoretical aspects of electromagnetic induction, including the behavior of magnetic fields in relation to solenoids and transformers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how EMF can be induced in the secondary winding of a transformer if most of the magnetic flux is contained within the iron core, suggesting that minimal flux cutting through the winding would lead to low induced EMF.
  • Another participant argues that while the flux inside the solenoid is largely contained in the iron core, the flux also exits the core and completes its loop outside the solenoid, which can induce current when the magnetic field is reversed.
  • A participant seeks clarification on the implications of a magnet approaching a solenoid along its axis, pondering whether EMF would be induced given that the motion is parallel to the magnetic field direction.
  • Further discussion highlights that if a magnet approaches the solenoid in line with the coil, the magnetic field can be visualized as toroidal, affecting the flux lines that intersect the windings.
  • Concerns are raised about the efficiency of power transfer in transformers, questioning how nearly all power is transferred if minimal flux cuts through the secondary winding.
  • Another participant emphasizes that for effective induction, the magnetic flux must complete a loop that includes the windings, indicating that the loop cannot be confined solely to the core.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms of EMF induction in solenoids and transformers, with no consensus reached on the effectiveness of flux cutting through windings or the implications for power transfer efficiency.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion involves assumptions about ideal conditions in transformers and solenoids, as well as the geometric considerations of magnetic fields and flux paths.

QwertyXP
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1. Assuming that both the windings of a transformer is wrapped around an iron core, how is an EMF induced in the secondary winding - isn't it necessary for flux to cut through the winding in order to induce an EMF? The flux cutting through the winding would apparently be very low..as most of it is contained inside the iron core.

2. If a magnet approaches a solenoid along its horizontal axis, the flux cutting through the solenoid will increase. However, the motion is parallel to the direction of magnetic field. Will an emf be induced across the solenoid?
 
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The flux of a solenoid must complete a loop. Yes the flux inside the solenoid is largely contained in the iron core. However the flux also leaves the iron core and completes its loop outside the solenoid. When the field is reversed, it must pass through the windings inducing a current.

Do you mean if a magnet approaches a solenoid in line with the coil and perhaps even enters the solenoid? If so, then consider the magnetic field a torus and you will see that the field must cross the windings. If the magnet approaches the solenoid perpendicular to the center of the coil, the flux lines will cross the windings but the field intersecting the coil on one side of the coil will cancel the field on the other side and very little current will be induced.
 
Last edited:
Thanks, skeptic2.

I didn't get the first point. As most of the flux from the primary remains inside the iron core while completing its loop and very little of it cuts the secondary winding (in an ideal transformer all the flux should remain inside the core), very little power should be transferred to the secondary winding - but in a transformer nearly all the power from the primary is transferred...?

Magnet approaching a solenoid in line with the coil: i think I've understood. The magnetic field is torroidal and hence even when the magnet is far away, the field lines cutting through the upper portion of the solenoid coil would be tilted slightly upwards and those passing through the lower portion would have a slight downward direction. Is that what u meant to say?
 
QwertyXP said:
As most of the flux from the primary remains inside the iron core while completing its loop and very little of it cuts the secondary winding (in an ideal transformer all the flux should remain inside the core), very little power should be transferred to the secondary winding - but in a transformer nearly all the power from the primary is transferred...?

Not only must the flux complete a loop, the loop must contain the windings with the current that creates the flux. In other words the loop must go around the windings. The loop of the flux cannot be completely contained by a core that only passes through the center of the solenoid.
 

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