How Does Friction Affect Cylinder Movement on Slopes and Planes?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of friction on a cylinder's movement on slopes and planes, particularly focusing on the direction of frictional forces in various scenarios. Participants are exploring concepts related to rolling motion and the nature of friction in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are questioning the direction of friction when a cylinder rolls down a slope versus when it is pulled up. There is confusion regarding the definition of friction as opposing movement versus opposing slipping.
  • Some participants are examining the relationship between the cylinder's rotation and the direction of friction on a horizontal plane, particularly when considering the lowest point of the cylinder's movement.
  • Questions are raised about the behavior of friction when a rolling cylinder begins to slide on a plane.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants sharing insights and clarifications regarding the nature of friction. Some guidance has been offered on the distinction between static friction and slipping, as well as considerations for rolling friction. Multiple interpretations of friction's behavior are being explored, indicating a productive dialogue.

Contextual Notes

Participants are referencing conflicting information from lecture notes and physics books, which adds complexity to their understanding of friction in different contexts. There is an emphasis on clarifying assumptions about motion and friction in rolling scenarios.

Hippoman
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If I have a cylinder rolling down a slope, the friction would point towards UP the slope, right?
So if instead the cylinder was _pulled_ up the slope by a force, wouldn't the friction direction be down? I have a problem because I have two separate lecture notes which state different answers and I don't know which of them is right. One says the friction would point up (which I think is wrong) and the other one says down.

Also, it's confusing because physics books say that friction always opposites movement. But if the cylinder is rolling on a plane, say, right, then the rotating movement would be clockwise. Why isn't the friction then opposing that rotating movement so that the friction force would be pointing right also? I mean, the lowest point of the cylinder is always moving left.

Secondly, if you put a rolling cylinder that's in the air (also rotating clockwise for example) to a plane and it starts to _slide_ at first, which way would the friction be at that case?

I've been searching the net and physics books for hours and I can't make these questions clear to myself, please help!
 
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Hippoman said:
If I have a cylinder rolling down a slope, the friction would point towards UP the slope, right?
So if instead the cylinder was _pulled_ up the slope by a force, wouldn't the friction direction be down?
Correct on both counts (assuming the cylinder rolls without slipping).
Also, it's confusing because physics books say that friction always opposites movement.
Better to think of friction as opposing slipping between surfaces.
But if the cylinder is rolling on a plane, say, right, then the rotating movement would be clockwise. Why isn't the friction then opposing that rotating movement so that the friction force would be pointing right also? I mean, the lowest point of the cylinder is always moving left.
If the cylinder is rolling along a horizontal plane without accelerating, then there's no static friction at all (ignore rolling friction and other complications). Also, with respect to the surface, assuming rolling without friction, the contact point of the cylinder always has zero speed.
Secondly, if you put a rolling cylinder that's in the air (also rotating clockwise for example) to a plane and it starts to _slide_ at first, which way would the friction be at that case?
Which way would the surfaces tend to slip against each other? Friction opposes it. (Also, compare this with a bit of common experience. Which way will the cylinder start moving? It's friction that makes it move.)
 
These are excellent questions.

"Also, it's confusing because physics books say that friction always opposites movement. But if the cylinder is rolling on a plane, say, right, then the rotating movement would be clockwise. Why isn't the friction then opposing that rotating movement so that the friction force would be pointing right also? I mean, the lowest point of the cylinder is always moving left."

Consider these:
 

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edziura's second attachment illustrates "rolling" friction. I suggest that you ignore such complications until after you've nailed down the direction of static friction.
 
Thanks Doc Al and edziura! Helped a lot.

About that answer for the second problem, if we continue with common experience. What will make the cylinder stop in the real world if the friction is the force that makes it move in the same direction? Is it the rolling friction in that case?
 

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