How does gravity hold onto the atmosphere

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    Atmosphere Gravity
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around how gravity retains the Earth's atmosphere, exploring the mechanisms by which gravity interacts with air molecules and the implications of molecular motion and escape velocity. The conversation includes theoretical considerations, calculations related to air density, and speculative queries about the mass of air.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that gravity holds the atmosphere in place similarly to how it keeps other objects on Earth, although some air molecules can escape due to their high velocities.
  • One participant questions the mass of a cubic kilometer of air under standard temperature and pressure, prompting a discussion about air composition and density.
  • Another participant provides a calculation of the average molar mass of dry air and its density, suggesting that the contributions of other elements in air are relatively minor compared to nitrogen.
  • A participant explains that all objects, including air molecules, experience gravitational forces according to the same laws, and discusses the concept of escape velocity in relation to gas molecules.
  • There is mention of the escape velocity required for a nitrogen atom to leave Earth's gravitational influence and the energy considerations involved in such a process.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the specifics of air density or the implications of escape velocity, and multiple competing views and calculations are presented throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some calculations and assumptions regarding air density and molecular behavior are presented, but there are unresolved details about the effects of altitude on gravitational force and the conditions under which air molecules may escape.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying atmospheric science, physics, or anyone curious about the interactions between gravity and gases.

pauldunnnnnnnn
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Gravity seems emense in strength of objects with large mass. So how does the Earth hold on to air molecules
 
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Gravity keeps the atmosphere surrounding Earth the same way it keeps everything else on Earth. Some molecules in the upper atmosphere (Ionosphere/Exosphere) do manage to escape Earth's gravitational pull sometimes, though, due to the fact that they continuously are bouncing around really fast.

http://Earth'sky.org/earth/what-keeps-Earth's-atmosphere-on-earth
 
Just for the fun of it: what is the mass of a cubic kilometer of air (normal T and p ) ? One metric tonne, a thousand, or a million ?
 
BvU said:
Just for the fun of it: what is the mass of a cubic kilometer of air (normal T and p ) ? One metric tonne, a thousand, or a million ?
Are you asking because you don’t know the answer or because you know the answer and you’re seeing if we know? :wink:
 
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The latter
 
Well, I don't know, and I'd love if you kindly provided answer . . . :smile:
 
Air is mostly nitrogen. Mass of 22.4 liter N2 is 28 gram (standard T p). Let's round off to 22.4 so 1 liter is 1 gram. Now all we have to do is scale up from 1 L (1 dm3) to 1 km3.
 
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BvU said:
Ait is mostly nitrogen. Mass of 22.4 liter N2 is 28 gram (standard T p). Let's round off to 22.4 so 1 liter is 1 gram. Now all we have to do is scale up from 1 L (1 dm3) to 1 km3.
That's clever! So the other 20% of elements that air is composed of does not make much of a difference?
 
28 is a pretty good guess . we're talking order of magnitude here: 'answers' provided are three orders of magnitude apart. Not many guess the right one offhand first time.
 
  • #10
I see. Thanks for the clarification. That was a fun fact I never thought of before.
 
  • #11
Average molar mass of dry air is 28.97 g/mol
http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molar_mass

That gives a density of 28.97/22.4 = 1.29 g/L
 
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  • #12
Wiki have it from the engineering toolbox (link in post #9) .
But they decently refer to that in their reference 6.

Did you guess the right order of magnitude at first :smile: ?
 
  • #13
As far as gravity is concerned, there's little difference between a molecule of air, a rock or a planet. They all obey the same Laws of Gravitation. An object close to Earth will "feel" a force towards the center of the Earth of GMm/r² (where G is a constant, M&m are the masses of Earth and the object, and r is the distance between them). This means that if you throw a rock up into the air its vertical velocity will decrease, reach zero, and then it will begin to accelerate downwards. Same thing with an air molecule. Molecules of gas can pretty accurately be described as particles with varying velocities due to collisions between them; when two collide, one may be sped up, the other slowed down, but momentum (and energy) have to be conserved. Within about 10 miles of the surface of the Earth, for most purposes, it is accurate enough to approximate the force acting on a (small (relative to Earth's mass)) object as a constant, g. When talking about what is happening to gas molecules 100 miles above the Earth, that approximation isn't very good. As a molecule of gas rises away from Earth, the force of attraction between it and Earth is getting less and less, so any object given enough of an initial velocity will "escape" from Earth's gravity. But that velocity is pretty high, and few things are traveling that fast. (We ignore air resistance here, because for a molecule of gas, air resistance isn't relevant). Anyway, most of the gas molecules going away from Earth fall back; only a few have the velocity to escape. (There's also the Solar Wind which can "blow" some molecules away, but talking about that would mean talking about our ionosphere, and we'd get bogged down pretty quick...)
 
  • #14
@BvU That Engineering Toolbox link is very good. I missed seeing it in your post 9... I knew before that the air density is around 1.2kg/m3..But, now only took closer look at that.
 
  • #15
The escape velocity of a body from the Earth is 11,186 m/s The average velocity of a Nitrogen atom at room temperature is 765 m/sec which has an energy of about .029 eV.. To totally escape it would take a head on collision with a proton of energy of about 3700 ev to impart enough energy to give a nitrogen atom enough velocity to escape if I did my calculations correctly.
 

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