How Does the Otto Cycle Work in a Cold Environment?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around analyzing an air-standard Otto cycle under cold conditions, specifically at a temperature of 300 K. Participants are attempting to solve a homework problem involving various thermodynamic properties and calculations related to the cycle, including mass of air, work produced during expansion, work consumed during compression, energy transferred during heating, and thermal efficiency.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on the identification of temperatures and pressures corresponding to different processes in the Otto cycle, questioning if T1 should be 300 K.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of using the correct equations for an air-standard cycle and questions the use of turbine and mass flow rate in the context of the Otto cycle.
  • There is a correction regarding the confusion between the Otto cycle and Rankine/Carnot cycle, with a participant noting that the equations used are not appropriate for the Otto cycle.
  • Participants discuss the calculation of internal energy and the use of specific heats to find energy transfers, with some expressing uncertainty about specific values and methods.
  • One participant asks about interpolation methods to find temperatures in the Otto cycle, indicating a need for further clarification on this topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach a consensus on the correct approach to solving the problem, with multiple competing views on the appropriate equations and methods to use. There is ongoing uncertainty regarding the identification of thermodynamic properties and the applicability of certain principles.

Contextual Notes

Participants express limitations in their understanding of the cycle's processes and the relationships between various thermodynamic properties. There is also mention of potential errors in calculations and assumptions made regarding the cycle.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students studying thermodynamics, particularly those focusing on the Otto cycle and its applications in engineering contexts.

aznkid310
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Homework Statement



Analyze an air-standard Otto cycle assuming it is a cold cycle with properties evaluated at 300 K. Air intake and exhaust are at 300 K, 1 bar. After the combustion (heat in) process, the temperature is 2500K. The compression ratio is 9. The volume at bottom dead center is 1 liter.

a. What is the mass of air in the cycle?

b. How much work is produced during expansion?

c. How much work is consumed during compression?

d. How much energy is transferred into the air during heating?

e. What is the thermal efficiency of the cycle?



Homework Equations



The biggest problem I am having is identifying which temperature and pressure corresponds to what process. Does air intake and exhaust mean that T1 = 300K?

1 to 2: Isentropic Compression (BDC to TDC)
2 to 3: Constant Vol. heat transfvr to air while piston at TDC.
3 to 4: Isentropic expansion
4 to 1: Constant Vol. where heat rejected from air at BDC

Also, I can do c,d,e once a and b are known, but I need help with those.

The Attempt at a Solution



b) efficiency of turbine n_t = (h1-h2)/(h1-h2s)
h2 = h1 - n_t(h1-h2s)
= 2804.2 -0.75(2804.2 - 2084.63) = 2264.5225
Power of pump Wp_dot = m_dot*(h4-h3)
h4 = h3 + Wp_dot/m_dot = h3 + v3(p4-p3)/n_p

Where n_ p = pump efficiency
h = enthalpy
p = pressure
m_dot = mass flow rate
v = specific volume
 
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can anyone please help me get started?
 
Just a few questions for you to think about (well and for me to know where you are)

Have you drawn the cycle out on paper?
Remember this is air standard - so what equations are you using?
Why are you using a turbine in your attempt at a solution?
Why are you using a mass flow rate - what type of system is an otto cycle?
Remember cycle efficiency is not the same as component efficiency.

Think about these and let me know what you think.
 
Yeah I have it drawn out on paper.

For air standard: W_12 = u2 -u1
W_34 = u3-u4
Q_23 = u3-u2
Q_41 = u4-u1
Thermal efficiency n = 1 - [(u4-u1)/(u3-u2)]
For isentropic processes: v_r2 = (V2/V1)*v_r1
v_r4 = (V4/V3)*v_r3
where v_r is the reduced specific volume, which i can use to get the temperature and specific internal energy
For constant Volume: p3 = p2*(T3/T2)
p4 = p1*(T4/T1)

In my book, the cycle consists of a pump, boiler, turbine, and condenser. I am using n_t to get h2.

Isnt the mass flow rate constant throughout the process?
 
A pump,boiler, turbine, and condenser is a Rankine/Carnot cycle that typically tuns on steam.

The Otto cycles are the 4 stroke spark ignition cycle that can have an air standard equivilant.

There is a rather major fundamental mistake in something here because you are trying to solve a completely different cycle than you have the information for. Some of your equations are based on the ideal gas law and some are based on steam cycle principals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_cycle#The_Otto_cycle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rankine_cycle

If this doesn't solve your problems I would suspect that there is something majorly wrong with the question (info) could you give scan of it?
 
Oh sorry, my mistake. You were right. I typed in something i didnt meant to. The question is correct. I am still having trouble determining which is which temperature, pressure, etc...
Here are my attempts:

Assuming T1 = 300K, u1 = 214.07 kJ/kg, v_r1 = 621.2

Then v_r2 = v_r1/r = 69.02

Interpolating: T2 = 702.75 K, u2 = 514.5 kJ/kg

mass m = (p1*V1)/[(R/MW)T1] = 1.16g, R = 8.3145

W_cycle = m[(u3-u4) - (u2-u1)], need u3 and u4

T2/T1 = (V1/V2)^(k-1), k= 1.4

V2 = 0.00499 L

p2 = p1[(T2*V1)/(T1*V2)] = 1670.676 bar
p3 = p2(T3/T2)
 
The internal energy can be found from CvT (specific heat at const vol)

and Cp/Cv = k

This would allow you to find Q in by m*cv*delta_T

and this in turn would allow you to find u3 as you know u2.

EDIT: This is all from memory and I've not done this in quite a while so I may be wrong.

I believe this stuff is in Thermodynamics - cengel and boles. I don't have my books with me so I can't check.

Also I think your V2 value is a bit off which is giving you the incorrect pressures for p2 and p3. [Vmax/Vmin is Rc]
 
Last edited:
What would be by T1,T2,T3, and T4?
 
please tell me how to interpolate in otto cycle to find temperature
 
  • #10
Please start a new thread to ask your question. From the appropriate forum, just click the "New Topic" [PLAIN]https://www.physicsforums.com/Prime/buttons/newthread.gif button.

Also, which forum is the appropriate one depends on whether this is for a homework assignment or not.
 
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