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How often do relationships work this way?

  1. 0-25% of the time these things happen

    1 vote(s)
  2. 26-50% of the time these things happen

    1 vote(s)
  3. 51-75% of the time these things happen

    1 vote(s)
  4. 76-100% of the time these things happen

    4 vote(s)
  1. Dec 2, 2009 #1
    Okay, so like a child drawn to a camp fire, I am drawn to this all of a sudden. Earlier Math Is Hard mentioned Desmond Morris in some thread. So talking about Desmond Morris, Morris proposed 12 steps that western culture men/women go through from first contact to intimate relationships. He said some of the steps may be skipped, but they are usually followed even if people take them for granted. He said most of the time when someone is accused of going too fast, it isn't time frame but rather if they actually go through these steps (an unwritten rule that most don't even think about). The steps:

    1. Eye to body
    2. Eye to eye
    3. Voice to voice
    4. Hand to hand
    5. Arm to shoulder
    6. Arm to waist
    7. Mouth to mouth
    8. Hand to head
    9. Hand to body
    10. Mouth to breast
    11. Hand to genitals
    12. You can use your imagination

    Then in between each of these steps there are go-ahead signals for the next step, and also things meaning "I'm not ready for that". For example when a man first holds a woman's hand he usually waits for her to press his hand or something similar before he takes the next step of allowing his fingers to intertwine with hers.

    So I'm only interested in how accurate the steps are leading up to kissing. The poll is:

    "In your experience, how often do steps 1 through 7 happen for kissing?"

    Thanks so much for helping out in this poll.
  2. jcsd
  3. Dec 2, 2009 #2
    Seems pretty spot on to me. Obviously you can do steps 1-3 in a matter of seconds. 4-6 in a day easy but 7-12 from weeks to months.
  4. Dec 2, 2009 #3


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    this reminds me of leisure suit larry
  5. Dec 2, 2009 #4


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    I think 4 and 5 should be reversed. It's easier to make casual contact with someone's arm or shoulder early in a relationship and as a friendly gesture than actually daring to hold hands. Holding hands comes after the light brush of the shoulder or such doesn't lead to the person pulling away.

    Though, I don't think people start worrying about "going too fast" until you get to steps 9, 10, and 11. And I don't care what order you do all those steps in, if you try 10 or 11 the first night you meet someone, you're likely to get accused of "going too fast" if not arrested.
  6. Dec 2, 2009 #5
    ya I agree with that, since at many friendly gatherings it's not uncommon for a friend of the opposite sex to playfully put their arm around another for a short time. but it would be weird to playfully hold hands in the same situation.
  7. Dec 3, 2009 #6
  8. Dec 3, 2009 #7


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    Ha.. You could actually say "Excuse me for a second, let me pull out a calculator and a cheat sheet to figure you out!" to a girl, and depending on how you say it, and the moment you say it. She might actually laugh, and not think you're weird, maybe even a funny guy.

    That's how unpredictable people are. A Multivariate Regression captures this? ha!, doubtfully. If you want to check out some Behavioral models look for a book entitled: "Discrete Choice Methods with Simulation" by Kenneth Train, but even these behavioral models are based on a agent-maximizing utility approach (Random utility theory), and perfect rationality. There are probably other approaches you can look in the literature, maybe check psychometrics, and econometrics papers.
  9. Dec 4, 2009 #8
    I skipped four through six in almost all of the relations I was in, including the one I'm currently in. I skip some of the later steps, too.
    In general, I don't believe in such behavioural models.
  10. Dec 6, 2009 #9
    Any more votes from anyone who hasn't voted yet would be very useful.
  11. Dec 6, 2009 #10


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    I haven't voted, because I don't know and don't care. That's up to each individual couple to determine what order things happen in.
  12. Dec 6, 2009 #11
    Well I respect that. I'm not saying you have to vote if you don't want to, I'm just trying to get those who don't mind voting to vote. I'm curious how much people can relate or not relate to that list. I want to see its validity (obviously Internet surveys aren't scientific surveys, but I still want some insight).
  13. Dec 7, 2009 #12
    Lol, my normal list for most girls follows:
    1. Eye to teeth (If a girl doesn't have those pearly whites then PEAACCEE)
    2. Eye to eye (yeah eyes are pretty important...)
    3. Eye to body (It's not as important as everyone thinks... as long as you have a good shape its and you are cute it's all good baby)
    4. Voice to voice (this is where you insert pick up line... real quality stuff. I usually go with 'hey whats your name.')
    5. Arm/hand to waist (How else are you supposed to direct them)
    6. Hand to head (I do not know why you have this after mouth to mouth, when you wanna kiss a girl so she remembers you it's important to do something with your hands...)
    7. Mouth to mouth
    8. Hand to hand (well since I lead her with my arm around her waist to somewhere else...)
    9. Hand to genital (her hand... you gotta invite her somehow)
    10. I'm sure you can fill in the rest.

    Bahaha good old high school parties :wink:

    My most recent girlfriend however things just sort of happened... when I first met her she wasn't someone I was really interested in dating and over time she just became that type of person more and more lol... we sort of plateau'd on some of the steps along the way though... I guess just to make sure we were keeping at the same pace to keep things good between us you know :smile:. It's completely different from that hook-up scenario from highschool. These type of 'step' things don't really work for these situations.
  14. Dec 15, 2009 #13


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    Enough of these threads.
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