How to Determine the Velocity of Block A with Pulley Masses Included?

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves determining the velocity of block A in a system with two blocks and pulleys, where the masses and radii of the pulleys are considered. The original poster attempts to solve the problem under the assumption that the pulleys can be neglected, but seeks guidance on how to approach the problem when the pulleys' mass and radius are included, leading to different tensions in the system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the impact of including pulley mass and radius on the tension in the ropes and the overall dynamics of the system. There are suggestions to draw free body diagrams and consider net forces, as well as to account for different tensions along the rope. Some participants question the applicability of energy conservation principles in this context.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with various interpretations of how to handle the complexities introduced by the pulleys' mass and radius. Participants have offered different approaches, including the use of free body diagrams and considerations of torque and angular acceleration, but no consensus has been reached on a definitive method.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem may not hold energy conservation unless explicitly stated, and there is a recognition that frictional torque could complicate the analysis further. The original poster's question about how to proceed with the problem when including pulley characteristics remains central to the discussion.

That_EDGEy_KiD
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Homework Statement


Block A has a mass of 3 kg, and block B has a mass of 8 kg. Determine the speed of block A if it moves upwards 2 meters, starting from rest. I can solve the problem pretty easily if the mass and radius of each of the pulleys is neglected. However, if they are not neglected and let's say that the question provides a known mass and radius for each of the top and bottom pulleys, how would I still go about solving for the velocity of block A?

upload_2016-3-29_22-19-9.jpeg

Homework Equations


KE = (1/2)mv^2
g = 9.8 m/s^2

The Attempt at a Solution


Neglecting the mass/radius of the pulleys,

(1/2)mAvA^2 + (1/2)mB(2vB)^2 = mBg(4) - mAg(2)

=> 17.5vA^2 = (8x4 - 3x2)g
=> 17.5vA^2 = 26g
=> vA = 3.82 m/s

However, If the top pulley had a mass of say 0.50 kg with a radius of 0.10 m and the bottom pulley had a mass of say 0.40 kg with a radius of 0.5 m, how would I solve for the velocity of block A since now the tensions are all different?
 
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That_EDGEy_KiD said:
However, If the top pulley had a mass of say 0.50 kg with a radius of 0.10 m and the bottom pulley had a mass of say 0.40 kg with a radius of 0.5 m, how would I solve for the velocity of block A since now the tensions are all different?
start the attempt by drawing a free body diagram and write down the net force working on masses/pulleys- as bodies are connected displacements are related and with their proper sign and apply the time rate of change of displacements to get velocity and in turn accelerations.
pully with masses may not hold the energy conservation unless stated
 
That_EDGEy_KiD said:
if they are not neglected and let's say that the question provides a known mass and radius for each of the top and bottom pulleys, how would I still go about solving for the velocity of block A?
In that situation, you can no longer assume tension is constant along a rope. Allow for a different tension on each stretch and consider the net torque and resulting angular acceleration of each pulley. Relate these angular accelerations to the linear accelerations of the masses using the rolling contact condition.
 
drvrm said:
pully with masses may not hold the energy conservation unless stated
There's nothing special about pulleys with mass in that regard. It's just an extra place for kinetic energy to be accumulated. Typically in pulley questions, massless or otherwise, you can assume work conservation, and indeed need to to solve it. An exception is when frictional torque is mentioned, or when there is enough information to deduce the magnitude of frictional torque.
 

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