How to find internal energy with constant temperature?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of internal energy in thermodynamics, particularly in the context of constant temperature scenarios. Participants explore the implications of specific heat variations and the definitions of heat transfer versus stored energy.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants question whether the heat formula Q=mc(T2-T1) is merely an approximation due to the variability of specific heat with temperature. They also discuss the definitions of heat and whether energy can be calculated in systems without temperature change, particularly during phase transitions.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided clarifications regarding the definitions of heat and the conditions under which specific heat applies. The conversation includes insights about phase transitions and the relative nature of internal energy, indicating a productive exploration of the topic without reaching a consensus.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing examination of the definitions of heat in thermodynamics and the implications of constant volume and pressure conditions on heat transfer equations. Participants are also considering the lack of a single equation for internal energy in systems at constant temperature.

EastWindBreaks
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Homework Statement


since specific heat c changes with temperature, but its treated as a constant in the heat formula, so that means that heat formula Q=mc(T2-T1) is just an approximation? correct?
I see some texts define heat as Heat, q, is thermal energy transferred from a hotter system to a cooler system that are in contact.(from Khan Academy), and some texts define it as energy stored inside of something. from the heat formula, if there is no temperature change, then the heat is 0.so the second definition is incorrect?

do we have a single equation that calculates internal energy stored in a system with no temperature change, for example at a given instant of a bottle of water?

Homework Equations



The Attempt at a Solution

 
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EastWindBreaks said:
Q=mc(T2-T1) is just an approximation? correct?
Correct. More generally Q = m ∫c(T) dT.
EastWindBreaks said:
if there is no temperature change, then the heat is 0.so the second definition is incorrect?
Not really because you need to consider phase transitions. When you partially melt an ice cube and end up with some ice and some water, the energy content of the slush is higher than before. The energy that you transferred into the ice cube has gone into loosening the bonds between some of the water molecules and turn them from "ice" to "water."
EastWindBreaks said:
do we have a single equation that calculates internal energy stored in a system with no temperature change, for example at a given instant of a bottle of water?
I don't believe so. There are many different kinds of phase transitions (Search the term if you wish) so there are many different mathematical descriptions of the energy stored in a system.
 
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EastWindBreaks said:

Homework Statement


since specific heat c changes with temperature, but its treated as a constant in the heat formula, so that means that heat formula Q=mc(T2-T1) is just an approximation? correct?
These equations apply only to a closed system at constant volume (##C_v##) or at constant pressure (##C_p##). Otherwise, the heat transferred Q is not given by either. However, more general relationships which are always true (by definition) are given by:
$$\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial T}\right)_V=C_v$$
$$\left(\frac{\partial H}{\partial T}\right)_P=C_p$$
In either case, if the heat capacity varies with temperature, then only the differential version is correct.
I see some texts define heat as Heat, q, is thermal energy transferred from a hotter system to a cooler system that are in contact.(from Khan Academy), and some texts define it as energy stored inside of something. from the heat formula, if there is no temperature change, then the heat is 0.so the second definition is incorrect?
According to how heat is described in thermodynamics, the first definition is correct and the second definition is definitely incorrect.
do we have a single equation that calculates internal energy stored in a system with no temperature change, for example at a given instant of a bottle of water?

Internal energy is a relative quantity (rather than absolute), so, in thermodynamics, it is always expressed relative to a specified reference state of zero internal energy. This is typically taken at a reference temperature and reference pressure.
 
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Got it, Thank you all!
 

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