How to Incorporate Metric Coefficients into Worldline Plots in Curved Spacetime?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the incorporation of metric coefficients into worldline plots in curved spacetime, exploring how these coefficients affect the representation of distances and time intervals in various coordinate systems. Participants examine theoretical and practical aspects of visualizing curved spacetime, including the implications for different methodologies and diagrams.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the leg differential lengths in worldline plots must vary inversely with the magnitudes of the metric coefficients, particularly near horizons in the Schwarzschild case.
  • Others argue that the choice of coordinate system significantly impacts how these coefficients are represented, drawing analogies to mapping the Earth.
  • A participant mentions the use of Kruskal and Penrose diagrams as effective methods for visualizing symmetric spacetimes.
  • One contributor references the potential for incorporating light-clock models into sector models of spacetime, particularly in simpler curved cases like de Sitter spacetimes.
  • Another participant discusses the limitations of representing curved surfaces on flat planes, emphasizing the importance of the metric in determining actual distances and times.
  • There is mention of visualizing the breakdown of Schwarzschild coordinates at the horizon, with references to specific figures in academic papers.
  • Some participants highlight the utility of drawing light cones and world lines in arbitrary coordinates, noting that the interpretation of intervals requires consideration of the metric.
  • A question is raised about the plotting of worldlines in curved spacetime, indicating a desire for tools similar to those used in Minkowski spacetime.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the representation of metric coefficients and worldlines in curved spacetime, with no consensus reached on the best approach or methodology. Multiple competing perspectives remain on how to effectively visualize these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific coordinate choices, the challenges of accurately representing curved spacetime on flat surfaces, and the unresolved nature of certain mathematical steps in the discussion.

exmarine
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TL;DR
How does one plot the world-lines for curved spacetime? That is such a useful tool for fixing the concepts for the Minkowski case that I would like to also use it to understand other cases.
Since it is nonlinear, the 3 leg lengths would be limited to differentials?

But how would the metric coefficients be incorporated into those leg lengths?

It seems like the leg differential lengths would have to vary inversely with the magnitudes of the metric coefficients? For example, near the horizon for the Schwarzschild case as the g_tt coefficient approaches zero, the component time differentials get very long as the proper clock slows down and counts fewer seconds? The radial differentials would get very short as g_rr gets very large and even light cannot get away?

Thanks.
 
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It depends which coordinate system you choose to use and how you choose to represent those coordinates. See the plethora of methodologies for drawing maps of the Earth - this problem is analogous.

That said, if you've got a symmetric spacetime you can often suppress a dimension or two and come up with something. Kruskal diagrams are a good map around Schwarzschild black holes, and Penrose diagrams are more abstract but can be drawn for more spacetimes.
 
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Check out
https://www.spacetimetravel.org/sectormodels1/sectormodels1.html

I met these researchers at a conference last year. I’m looking into whether my light-clock diamonds can be incorporated into these sector models.

In the simplest curved cases, you could look at the de Sitter spacetimes using hyperboloids. My students were studying the clock effect on them.
 
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Consider the curved surface of the earth. You can represent it on a flat plane with a map, but it won't be a map to scale.

The mathematical process of drawing maps of the curved surface of the Earth on a flat piece of paper is known as projection. There are several widely used schemes, for example Mercator projection.

If you use a globe, rather than a flat piece of paper, though, you can draw a map of the Earth on the surface of the globe (i.e. on a sphere) that is to scale.

Equivalently, there is no difficulty in drawing a space-time diagram in a curved space-time on a flat piece of paper. But it won't be to scale.

A certain amount of insight into GR can be gained by drawing space-time diagrams on curved surfaces, such as the sphere, though the technique is limited. I believe it is not generally possible to crate a curved 3d surface to draw a 2d space-time graph on for a general 1+1 space-time geometry "to scale", but certain special cases can be illustrated that way.

The metric of GR can be thought of as a tool to get actual distances and times from the distored map imposed on a curved space-time by a particular choice of coordinates.
 
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pervect said:
A certain amount of insight into GR can be gained by drawing space-time diagrams on curved surfaces, such as the sphere, though the technique is limited.
For an example, @exmarine might want to take a look at Flamm's parabaloid (Google finds some good links, including the wikipedia article on the Schwarzschild spacetime).
 
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Look, world lines for SR drawn on paper using Minkowski coordinates already need to be interpreted using the metric. Visually longer intervals often have shorter invariant interval. There is really no difference for arbitrary world line in arbitrary coordinates for an arbitrary metric. You can just place orthogonal axes on a flat plane (even if the actual coordinates are not 4-orthogonal), draw world lines, then compute (using the metric expressed in said coordinates) where to place marks for proper time. For qualitative understanding, it is often useful to draw light cones, which can be read from any metric at any point trivially by setting the line element to zero.
 
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exmarine said:
How does one plot the world-lines for curved spacetime? That is such a useful tool for fixing the concepts for the Minkowski case that I would like to also use it to understand other cases.

Check out the articles by Rickard Jonsson (the two theses at the very bottom provide a good overview):
http://www.relativitet.se/articles.html
 
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