How to make a wanted shape from a raw material?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the processes and techniques involved in shaping raw materials, particularly metals, into desired forms such as balls, nails, and screws. Participants explore various methods including forging, casting, and machining, while also addressing the challenges of creating molds and machines necessary for these processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest methods like forging, casting, and machining for shaping metals.
  • One participant raises the issue of needing to create molds for casting, questioning how to make a mold without existing tools.
  • Another participant mentions the infinite regress problem of needing machines to make machines, highlighting the role of a manufacturing economy where different companies specialize in various processes.
  • Some participants discuss the relative strengths of cast iron versus forged iron, with one suggesting that a machine shop could create an iron ball from scrap material.
  • There are anecdotes shared about traditional machining training, including the use of files to create precise shapes and the historical context of such skills.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the processes involved in shaping materials, with no consensus reached on the best approach or the specifics of how to begin the shaping process. The discussion includes both agreement on the methods available and disagreement on the feasibility of certain steps.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their understanding of the processes, particularly regarding the initial steps required for casting and machining. There is also a recognition of the complexity involved in manufacturing, which often requires specialized knowledge and tools.

Demystifier
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I know almost nothing about engineering, so my question is very basic. Basically, assuming that I have a scheme for a prototype of something, how do make it from a raw material? If it is still not clear what do I ask, let me further simplify. Suppose that I want to make a well-shaped iron ball - how do I make it? How to shape the melted iron into a ball? Or into a nail? Or into a screw? Or into some other wanted shape?

I guess this type of problems has its own name, but I don't know what that name is? It would help me for further googling about such problems.

It would also help if you know youtube videos or something like that where the process of shaping can be better visualized.
 
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Do you have access to TV programs like "How it's Made" (Discovery Channel). Some are on youtube..

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjHsPBHX1NNbIqTy4eXVTig

Nails and staples..


Steel forging..


Ball Bearings


Loads more available. For example to find out how Scissors are made just type in "How it's made Scissors" (without quotes) at the top of any youtube page..
 
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DrClaude said:
I'm no engineer either, but to my knowledge for metal you can do forging, casting, or machining. See for instance http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dp-forging.html

There is nice presentation (not a video, but lots of nice images) here: https://prezi.com/clbg1br9sjf5/machining-vs-casting/
That's useful, but leads to a kind if infinite regress (or chicken-or-egg) problem.
For casting, I first need to make a mold. How do I make a mold in the first place?
Likewise, for machining I first need to make the machine. How do I make a machine if I don't already have one?
 
CWatters said:
Do you have access to TV programs like "How it's Made" (Discovery Channel). Some are on youtube..

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjHsPBHX1NNbIqTy4eXVTig

Nails and staples..


Steel forging..


Ball Bearings


Loads more available. For example to find out how Scissors are made just type in "How it's made Scissors" (without quotes) at the top of any youtube page..

That was very useful, thanks!
 
That's useful, but leads to a kind if infinite regress (or chicken-or-egg) problem.
For casting, I first need to make a mold. How do I make a mold in the first place?

Try "sand casting".
 
Demystifier said:
That's useful, but leads to a kind if infinite regress (or chicken-or-egg) problem.
For casting, I first need to make a mold. How do I make a mold in the first place?
Likewise, for machining I first need to make the machine. How do I make a machine if I don't already have one?
Fortunately, there are people who make machines and machine tools who sell these items to machinists and other skilled craftsmen who use them to make things.
No one mines iron ore, smelts it, turns it into iron, converts the iron to steel, shapes the steel into parts, assembles parts into a machine and makes stuff with it, all under one roof, and all from scratch. That's what a manufacturing economy is for. Different companies specializing in doing one part of the entire process.
 
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From what I understand cast iron is much weaker than forged.
I would think a machine shop could turn you a fairly good iron ball
from a chunk of scrap.
 
  • #10
johnbbahm said:
From what I understand cast iron is much weaker than forged.
I would think a machine shop could turn you a fairly good iron ball
from a chunk of scrap.
If you've got a lot of time on your hands, you can take a lump of iron and use a file.

That's what students who were apprentice machinists in Germany would do. They were each given a piece of steel and a file and told to make a cube measuring 150 mm on each edge. They were given something like 6 months to complete this project. After they were finished, the master machinist would inspect each apprentice's finished product and carefully measure the sides of the cube to ensure each measured 150 mm. The losers got voted out of the machine shop.
 
  • #11
SteamKing said:
If you've got a lot of time on your hands, you can take a lump of iron and use a file.

That's what students who were apprentice machinists in Germany would do. They were each given a piece of steel and a file and told to make a cube measuring 150 mm on each edge. They were given something like 6 months to complete this project. After they were finished, the master machinist would inspect each apprentice's finished product and carefully measure the sides of the cube to ensure each measured 150 mm. The losers got voted out of the machine shop.

Yup. The skill is called "flat filing".
About 100 years ago, one was required to have the skill to make machine parts by hand if no other means were available. One of the steps, for iron parts, was to first anneal the metal, that is, to heat treat it until it softened up some, to make it easier to work. Then one would harden it again with more heat, rapid cooling, and tempering.
 
  • #12
Funny about the flat filing.
We had to make a letter opener out of brass using a file.
And a gauge for a set angle measurement out of steel by file.
Sandpaper to make it all nice and shiny.

I still have them as testament to my handywork.
 

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