How to Prove Corollary 4.2.8 in Noetherian Rings?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around proving Corollary 4.2.8 from Paul E. Bland's book "Rings and Their Modules," specifically within the context of Noetherian and Artinian modules. Participants seek clarification on the necessary definitions and propositions to establish the proof, including the implications of treating rings as modules.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Peter requests assistance in proving Corollary 4.2.8 and references relevant definitions and propositions from Bland's text.
  • Some participants suggest using the notation and propositions from the book, specifically Proposition 4.2.7 and Corollary 2.2.4, to aid in the proof.
  • Peter expresses uncertainty about whether treating rings as modules affects the proof and questions the necessity of Corollary 2.2.4.
  • Several participants affirm that it is appropriate to consider the ring \( R \) as a right \( R \)-module and that Proposition 4.2.7 is sufficient for the proof.
  • Peter proposes a sequence of implications to establish the proof, linking the Noetherian property of \( R \) to the Noetherian property of \( R^{(n)} \) through Proposition 4.2.7.
  • A later reply confirms Peter's proposed sequence of implications as correct.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the approach of treating the ring \( R \) as a module and that Proposition 4.2.7 is sufficient for proving Corollary 4.2.8. However, there is some initial uncertainty regarding the necessity of Corollary 2.2.4 and the implications of treating rings as modules.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the definitions and propositions referenced are crucial for understanding the proof, and there is an ongoing discussion about the implications of treating rings as modules. The discussion does not resolve whether Corollary 2.2.4 is necessary.

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I am reading Paul E. Bland's book, "Rings and Their Modules".

I am focused on Section 4.2: Noetherian and Artinian Modules and need some help to understand the proof of Corollary 4.2.8

Proposition 4.2.7 and its Corollary 4.2.8 read as follows:View attachment 8210Bland states but does not prove Corollary 4.2.8 ...

Can someone please help me to establish a proof for Corollary 4.2.8 ...

Help will be appreciated ...

Peter=================================================================================The above text by Bland refers to right Noetherian rings and to $$R^{ (n) }$$ ... Bland's definitions for these entities follow ...Bland defines right Noetherian rings in Definition 4.2.1 which reads as follows:View attachment 8211Bland defines the free module $$R^{ (n) }$$ on page 52 as follows:View attachment 8212
Hope the text above helps ...

Peter
 
Last edited:
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Use the "Notation" on p.51, cor.2.2.4. and prop.4.2.7.
 
steenis said:
Use the "Notation" on p.51, cor.2.2.4. and prop.4.2.7.
By definition (Notation page 51) ... where $$\{ M_\alpha \}_{ i = 1 }^n$$ is a family of modules such that $$M_\alpha = M $$ ...

... we have that $$M^{ (n) } = M \times M \times \ ... \ ... \ \times M$$ ... (n factors)

... in other words $$R^{ (n) } = R \times R \times \ ... \ ... \ \times R$$ ... (n factors) ... ... ... ... ... (1)

... and ...

... since we are dealing with a finite direct product we have ...

$$R^{ (n) } \cong \bigoplus_{ i = 1 }^n R_\alpha$$ where $$R_\alpha = R$$ ... ... ... ... ... (2)But ... problem ... formulae (1) and (2) are dealing with rings not modules ... is this a problem ...?

Can you clarify ... ?
Note:

I know a ring can be considered as a "module over itself" ... but does this mean that for the proof we simply consider the rings as modules .. ... ? ... ... or does it have other effects ...

If we just simply consider the rings as modules then it seems to me we can just apply Proposition 4.2.7 with $$M_i = R_i$$ ... but then we are not using Corollary 2.2.4 that you suggested was necessary ...

Can you help ...

Peter
 
Yes, consider $R$ as a right $R$-module, see definition 4.2.1
prop. 4.2.7 will do, cor.2.2.4 is not really necessary
 
Last edited:
steenis said:
Yes, consider $R$ as a right $R$-module, see definition 4.2.1
prop. 4.2.7 will do, cor.2.2.4 is not really necessary
Thanks for the help, Steenis ...

Peter
 
steenis said:
Yes, consider $R$ as a right $R$-module, see definition 4.2.1
prop. 4.2.7 will do, cor.2.2.4 is not really necessary
Thanks again Steenis ...

Proof of Corollary 4.2.8 should then be as follows:

A ring $$R$$ is Noetherian (and hence a Noetherian module)

$$\Longleftrightarrow \bigoplus_{ i = 1 }^n R_i$$ is a Noetherian module by Proposition 4.2.7

$$\Longleftrightarrow R^{ (n) }$$ is a Noetherian module by definition of $$R^{ (n) }$$ ... Is that correct?

Peter
 
Yes, that is correct

(mention that $R_i = R$)
 

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